New Balkan Turk Eurogenes K13 Averages

**Kaspias** · 12-14-2020, 05:09 PM

I have created averages by randomly choosing ~20 samples from the archive and tried not to add definite outliers. I believe these are decent enough.

Code:

Turk_Trakya,15.59,18.68,14.59,17.12,21.06,2.92,1.42,2.18,5.21,0.48,0.35,0.19,0.20
Turk_Deliorman,18.24,21.24,14.61,15.55,19.50,2.61,1.05,2.57,3.74,0.41,0.51,0.17,0.15
Turk_Makedonya,19.58,18.64,16.77,13.73,23.61,2.80,0.68,1.01,2.18,0.21,0.36,0.21,0.24

I will be rearranging Pomaks later.

**Thracian** · 12-14-2020, 05:31 PM

My previous distances

Code:

Distance to:	Thracian
4.55378963	Turk_Balkan_average
4.81646828	Turk_Bulgaria_Central
5.19791411	Turk_Western_Thrace
6.28170757	Turk_Eastern_Macedonia
6.76759107	Turk_Bulgaria_Northeast
7.12895588	Turk_Bulgaria_South
7.42994616	Turk_Bulgaria_East
7.49533188	Pomak_Drama
8.06793034	Greek_Istanbul
8.44125583	Bulgaria_Southeastern
8.63470903	Turk_Central_Macedonia
8.67974654	Pomak_Central-Macedonia
8.76254529	Greek_Northeast
8.76334982	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
8.85529785	Greek_West_Macedonia
8.88277547	Turk_Eastern_Thrace
8.97182813	Bulgaria_Northeastern
8.97666976	Turk_Crete
9.03455035	Vlach(Aromanian)_average
9.14821841	Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
9.29669834	Greek
9.60569753	Greek_Thessaly
9.65942027	Pomak_Komotini
9.67675565	Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
9.69574133	Pomak_Nevrokopi

And new one

Code:

Distance to:	Thracian
5.85551876	Turk_Makedonya
6.27652770	Turk_Trakya
6.62729206	Turk_Deliorman
7.49533188	Pomak_Drama
8.06793034	Greek_Istanbul
8.44125583	Bulgaria_Southeastern
8.67974654	Pomak_Central-Macedonia
8.76254529	Greek_Northeast
8.76334982	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
8.85529785	Greek_West_Macedonia
8.97182813	Bulgaria_Northeastern
8.97666976	Turk_Crete
9.03455035	Vlach(Aromanian)_average
9.14821841	Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
9.29669834	Greek
9.60569753	Greek_Thessaly
9.65942027	Pomak_Komotini
9.67675565	Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
9.69574133	Pomak_Nevrokopi
9.73147471	Greek_Peloponnese
9.92584001	MacedonianSouthWest
9.98492864	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
9.98786263	Pomak_average
10.01635662	Greek_Central_Macedonia
10.02946659	MacedonianPelagonia

**Kaspias** · 12-14-2020, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Thracian

My previous distances

Thanks for posting.

I

Code:

Distance to:	Kaspias
4.52204600	Turk_Trakya
5.86913111	Turk_Deliorman
8.45941487	Pomak_Drama
8.89607779	Turk_Makedonya
9.59017727	Pomak_Komotini
10.18662358	Pomak_average
10.20104897	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
10.78962928	Bulgaria_Southeastern
11.11358178	Pomak_Nevrokopi
11.43537931	Turk_Crete
11.54653195	Bulgaria_Northeastern
11.56314404	Bulgaria_Northcentral
11.70595575	Bulgaria_Southcentral
12.01060365	Greek_Northern-Thrace
12.04189354	Vlach(Aromanian)_average
12.06470058	Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
12.10187176	Pomak_Central-Macedonia
12.12707302	Bulgaria_average
12.24790186	Romania_Muntenia
12.40733654	Greek_Istanbul
12.42888973	Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
12.54615877	Romania_Dobruja
12.64367826	MacedonianSouthWest
12.71435409	MacedonianCentral
12.73778238	Romania_Wallachia

Distance to:	Kaspias23andme
7.81042893	Turk_Trakya
8.09695004	Turk_Deliorman
8.34092321	Pomak_Drama
8.50623889	Turk_Makedonya
9.43884527	Pomak_average
9.74955384	Pomak_Komotini
10.31198817	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
10.56396706	Pomak_Nevrokopi
10.58694007	Greek_Northern-Thrace
10.65409311	Pomak_Xanthi
10.78325554	Greek_Eastern-Thrace
10.83836704	Turk_Crete
10.91263488	Bulgaria_Southeastern
11.06959349	Vlach(Aromanian)_average
11.13748176	Bulgaria_Southcentral
11.16262514	Bulgaria_Northcentral
11.18011628	Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
11.69935041	MacedonianNorthEast
11.79603323	Bulgaria_average
11.85878156	Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
11.89129934	Pomak_Central-Macedonia
11.90134866	MacedonianSouthWest
11.91859472	Bulgaria_Northeastern
12.03520669	Romania_Muntenia
12.04328859	Greek_Central_Macedonia

Father

Code:

Distance to:	Kaspias_dad
7.98117159	Turk_Trakya
10.49511791	Turk_Deliorman
11.49155342	Turk_Makedonya
11.77996180	Turk_Crete
13.41913932	Pomak_Drama
13.45278410	Greek_Istanbul
13.63223386	Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
14.09143002	Greek_West_Macedonia
14.15196453	Greek_Northeast
14.18814294	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
14.30380719	Greek
14.37610170	Bulgaria_Southeastern
14.47436009	Pomak_Komotini
14.47478843	Greek_Peloponnese
14.72462563	Greek_Central
14.79057893	Greek_Thessaly
14.79334648	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
14.80557327	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
14.84432552	Vlach(Aromanian)_average
14.94547089	Greek_Central_Macedonia
15.00909058	Bulgaria_Northeastern
15.02530865	Greek_Eastern-Thrace
15.18233842	Turk_North_West
15.25444198	MacedonianSouthWest
15.30033987	Greek_Andros_Island

Cousin

Code:

Distance to:	Kaspias_cousin
6.66547073	Turk_Trakya
7.72217586	Turk_Makedonya
7.81680881	Turk_Deliorman
9.01067700	Turk_Crete
9.40286658	Greek_Northeast
9.42060508	Greek_West_Macedonia
9.45786974	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
9.75323023	Bulgaria_Southeastern
9.79308429	Pomak_Drama
9.90728015	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
9.90957618	Greek
10.08557386	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
10.08741419	Greek_Thessaly
10.16402479	Vlach(Aromanian)_average
10.17419284	Vlach_North-Macedonia
10.20389141	MacedonianSouthWest
10.30577023	Greek_Peloponnese
10.48555673	Greek_Central_Macedonia
10.50541765	Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
10.50912461	MacedonianPelagonia
10.57053925	Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
10.68612184	Bulgaria_Northeastern
10.71839074	Pomak_Komotini
10.76797103	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
10.89795394	Greek_Central

Mom(will be more meaningful after rearranging Pomaks though)

Code:

Distance to:	Kaspias_mom_phased
8.28454585	Pomak_Drama
8.31212368	Pomak_Xanthi
8.44668574	Pomak_average
8.71775774	Pomak_Komotini
10.00919078	Turk_Deliorman
10.41836360	Pomak_Nevrokopi
10.52114062	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
10.87349530	Bulgaria_Northcentral
10.87612063	Greek_Northern-Thrace
11.06023960	Turk_Trakya
11.25904969	Bulgaria_Southcentral
11.43244943	Bulgaria_Southeastern
11.71161389	Bulgaria_average
11.83012680	Romania_Muntenia
11.88124573	Turk_Makedonya
11.90580951	Bulgaria_Northwestern
12.02393862	Pomak_Plovdiv
12.08835804	Moldova_South
12.14837026	Romania_Dobruja
12.22771033	MacedonianNorthEast
12.35337606	Romania_Wallachia
12.36102747	Bulgaria_Northeastern
12.86194775	Bulgaria_Southwestern
12.92169880	Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
12.92774922	Romania_Banat

**Leto** · 12-15-2020, 11:02 PM

So basically

Trakya - 2.18% East_Asian, 5.21% Siberian, 0.48% Amerindian
Deliorman - 2.57% East_Asian, 3.74% Siberian, 0.41% Amerindian
Makedonya - 1.01% East_Asian, 2.18% Siberian, 0.21% Amerindian

**Kaspias** · 12-16-2020, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

So basically

Trakya - 2.18% East_Asian, 5.21% Siberian, 0.48% Amerindian
Deliorman - 2.57% East_Asian, 3.74% Siberian, 0.41% Amerindian
Makedonya - 1.01% East_Asian, 2.18% Siberian, 0.21% Amerindian

Yes, these are the averages.

**Hapanuwa** · 12-16-2020, 09:07 AM

Many of these are higher EA than Anatolian Turks. Big loss for the theory that Balkan Turks are assimilated natives

**Leto** · 12-16-2020, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Kaspias

Yes, these are the averages.

Originally Posted by Hapanuwa

Many of these are higher EA than Anatolian Turks. Big loss for the theory that Balkan Turks are assimilated natives

The Makedonya average is pretty low though.

**Hapanuwa** · 12-16-2020, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Leto

The Makedonya average is pretty low though.

Yes but the admixture is still there. Sometimes, people act like these Balkan Turks are a hypnotized and Islamized native population, and that the Turkic nomads have never entered the Balkan, which is untrue. This is mostly due to nationalist propaganda to assimilate Turkish and muslim minorities within their country.

Macedonian Turkic average is higher than many Turks from NE Anatolia, who don't even have 0,01% EA. Still, we don't consider them 'less' Turkish in Turkey.

**Dorian** · 12-16-2020, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Hapanuwa

Yes but the admixture is still there. Sometimes, people act like these Balkan Turks are a hypnotized and Islamized native population, and that the Turkic nomads have never entered the Balkan, which is untrue. This is mostly due to nationalist propaganda to assimilate Turkish and muslim minorities within their country.

Macedonian Turkic average is higher than many Turks from NE Anatolia, who don't even have 0,01% EA. Still, we don't consider them 'less' Turkish in Turkey.

You guys should spread some Yoruks over Trabzon,Lazistan or Gagauzia ,these propagandists will see then..

**Kaspias** · 12-16-2020, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Hapanuwa

Many of these are higher EA than Anatolian Turks. Big loss for the theory that Balkan Turks are assimilated natives

It is not even a theory, just a defense mechanism for Anthrotards who don't want to accept the Turkish presence in the Balkans. On the other hand, in terms of states, they do it with the purposes of assimilating, pushing Turks to migrate to Turkey, or thanks to bad mutual relations with Turkey.

Originally Posted by Leto

The Makedonya average is pretty low though.

Yes. There are some reasons for it:

1- Low sample size. We don't have samples from specific rural areas where Turkish was the only spoken language but have mostly from urban settlements. 30Km neighbour of Thessaloniki, Langaza, has 6% EE average(N=3) while Thessaloniki has 2%(N=4).
2- Presence of various Muslim ethnicities around which led Turks to mix with them; instead of marriages only among Balkan Turks.
3- Cosmopolit structure of the region.
4- Thessaloniki, being the heart of the Ottoman Balkans, encouraged Turks to settle in urban areas by leaving nomadism/semi-nomadism earlier.

Frankly, only 10% of the admixture determines what language you will speak when it comes to Macedonia. The difference between Greek, Slavic, and Turkic speakers are only around 10% when used population averages.