The Dutch Don’t Love Europe—and Never Did

[Dunai]

Haven't you learned anything from history? It is imperialism that seeks to subjugate nations, and empires are very happy when an "overlord" is willing to sell out their nation-state in order to be anointed into the ruling class of the growing Empire. They rely on the theory, "why limit yourself to being king of a molehill when there is an Olympus you can be a part of?" and encourage the deposing of leaders who will not cooperate with their Imperial agenda. The two world wars you are talking about started literally because Empires could not respect the autonomy of nations, but you say that their defense of national determination is what caused the wars? Your argument is the same as blaming the rise in violence caused by a mugging victim beating away their attacker.

The lack of wars is because of the superpowers and nuclear arms, not the EU. The EU prevents zero wars. You will see very soon, when the EU Imperial Army is formed, that the EU soldiers will indeed take up arms in defense of the Empire against members of nation-states who fail to fall in line. National borders are like clothing. A social construct that can be used to protect against unfavorable elements. Or would you let any random stranger grope you freely?

What empire are you babbling about the EU? Have you actually read anything about how it works, and what are its institutions? The EU has several institutions, well separated from one another, and nothing gets passed without unanimous agreement from all of these legislative and decision making bodies. As of now the EU is nothing but an economic bloc of member states, but it really has no true power to enforce member states to do anything. This is why such rogue governments as the Polish and Hungarian are completely taking advantage of how unnecessarily bureaucratic and powerless the EU is. The only empires right now on the planet are the US, Russia and China, since they also have strong armies and financially expansionist strategies to govern other countries. The EU right now is a very good concept but quite poorly executed, since it lacks direct democracy institutions through which the citizens of the EU could have more of their say. Ideally the EU should start to unify more, while expending more rights to its citizens to elect who should govern the EU. Right now the EU is governed by member state prime ministers and presidents, and already one country that decides to veto something can easily jeopardize the entire reformist programs, which would make the EU more democratic. I'm deeply ashamed that in our day and age Hungary gets to play such a destructive role, through its mafia-like government. If the EU would really be an empire do you really believe a sleazy character like Orbán could get away with almost anything? Don't be so naive.

[Creoda]

The appeal of the EU is a feminine one, it appeals to feminine minds, male or female. Submit your independence/identity to a greater body, no more conflict (allegedly), cooperation is more important than independent achievement, everything is to be regulated to nth degree/nanny state, a giant talking house called EU Parliament (modelled on the Tower of Babel) that is a pointless charade, you must be in tune with everyone else/neighbours (sheep mentality). Then there's the explicitly liberal and cultural marxist politics that the EU forces, it's not the neutral vessel it should be by any means.

It should instinctively make any right-minded, mildly patriotic man's skin crawl.

[-Scar-]

The so-called "Greek debt" was a vast banking racket organized by Goldman Sachs through CDs (whose CEO was at that time, Lloyd Blankfein - Ashkenazi Jew, like most top executives of Investment Banks in the US, who claims to be "just a banker doing God's job"...)

https://www.spiegel.de/international...-a-676634.html
https://www.ft.com/content/ca979904-...d-00144feab49a

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...m-1953015.html

And don't underestimate the symbolic value of Greece : it is the spiritual foundation of Europe, Athens was the center of universalism and rationality (philosophy, mathematics, science, arts, poltiics); it was for thousand years the symbolic rival of Jerusalem, which represented tribalism and deception (manipulation) of so-called "Chosen People"...

If European Union was really designed for the sake of "unity and brotherhood" of Europeans, they would never dare to humiliate Greece, because it is like symbolically like spitting on your weak, old father...

1.) Greek debt was caused by irresponsibility not the Jews. Greece's govement spent like there was no tomorrow. Germany is partly to blame (but not mostly) for letting them in and giving them that high amount of loans (if they knew).
2.)The 19th/20th Jewish leftist movement has nothing do with antiquity.
3.) There was never any rivality between Athens and Jerusalem, Jews flouirshed under the Hellenistic period that's why the New Testament was written in Greek, they even welcomed Alexander the Great.
Athens was no longer the center of Hellenism since Alexandria was founded.
4.) Ancient Ionians of Attica were completely replaced in Attica.

[Zeno]

1.) Greek debt was caused by irresponsibility not the Jews. Greece's govement spent like there was no tomorrow. Germany is partly to blame (but not mostly) for letting them in and giving them that high amount of loans (if they knew).
2.)The 19th/20th Jewish leftist movement has nothing do with antiquity.
3.) There was never any rivality between Athens and Jerusalem, Jews flouirshed under the Hellenistic period that's why the New Testament was written in Greek, they even welcomed Alexander the Great.
Athens was no longer the center of Hellenism since Alexandria was founded.
4.) Ancient Ionians of Attica were completely replaced in Attica.

I see you still keep ignoring the fact that Germany, through the European Commission. knew all the time, since the early 90s, about the deficit and the debt's dire situation, but still kept giving us money, without any prospect of Greece repaying them just because of their mere size to the GDP. And no, it is mostly Germany's fault for intentionally pumping these loans in order to make the Greek market incompetent for antagonising the German market in the environment of the single market. It's easy: you economically subordinate a smaller market by overwhelminging it with other expenses, in Greece's case: debt and budget deficits, in order to make them allocate funds and inflating the currency in order to annihilate any competition from them. And it worked. Our trade balances became negative in no time, and sales of German products "miraculously" exploded in no time in the late 80s. And yes, the goverment spent likes there's no tomorrow, but again, where was the European Commission and all the member states to tell the government not to spend that much, with the Commission knowing everything here? The answer is, they didn't want to stop us spending. They intentionally let us so, so that we don't fix our budget and then concentrate on making our trade more competitive once again. Because EU = German supremacy over other member states.

That's what happened with Britain. That's what's happening in the Netherlands, as The Lawspeaker says. Germany is draining all other markets in the Union in order to take benefit.

[Turul Karom]

What empire are you babbling about the EU? Have you actually read anything about how it works, and what are its institutions? The EU has several institutions, well separated from one another, and nothing gets passed without unanimous agreement from all of these legislative and decision making bodies. As of now the EU is nothing but an economic bloc of member states, but it really has no true power to enforce member states to do anything. This is why such rogue governments as the Polish and Hungarian are completely taking advantage of how unnecessarily bureaucratic and powerless the EU is. The only empires right now on the planet are the US, Russia and China, since they also have strong armies and financially expansionist strategies to govern other countries. The EU right now is a very good concept but quite poorly executed, since it lacks direct democracy institutions through which the citizens of the EU could have more of their say. Ideally the EU should start to unify more, while expending more rights to its citizens to elect who should govern the EU. Right now the EU is governed by member state prime ministers and presidents, and already one country that decides to veto something can easily jeopardize the entire reformist programs, which would make the EU more democratic. I'm deeply ashamed that in our day and age Hungary gets to play such a destructive role, through its mafia-like government. If the EU would really be an empire do you really believe a sleazy character like Orbán could get away with almost anything? Don't be so naive.

Did you even read my post? Also, you are talking as though the EU is already a country unto itself. "Rogue governments?" What, do you mean "independent governments?" I was unaware that we have already been incorporated into the EU Empire so totally. The EU is a bad concept that is implemented even worse. Hungarians are 1,9% of all the EU. There is no way Hungarians will ever have a say unless they are an individual who wants to leverage their country as a bargaining chip to enter higher levels of EU power. The EU is playing the long game, and believe that Orbán and politicians like him are a passing fad. They want you to surrender to the Empire peacefully by showing what a marvelous bounty of riches awaits any people wise enough to sign their life away to the EU Empire. If not? Well, we can always keep having "democratic referendums" until the "correct result" is voted for once the public is "educated" enough on the subject.

Just like berating a woman for sex, right? 50 "no"s in a row and 1 "yes" at the end means "yes," right?

[Davystayn]

European Coal and Steel community was designed to enmesh Germany and France together making war more or less impossible, but peace was assured by NATO and the Soviet threat binding the 'west' together, EU is pretty much an irrelevance as a military factor

[-Scar-]

I see you still keep ignoring the fact that Germany, through the European Commission. knew all the time, since the early 90s, about the deficit and the debt's dire situation, but still kept giving us money, without any prospect of Greece repaying them just because of their mere size to the GDP. And no, it is mostly Germany's fault for intentionally pumping these loans in order to make the Greek market incompetent for antagonising the German market in the environment of the single market. It's easy: you economically subordinate a smaller market by overwhelminging it with other expenses, in Greece's case: debt and budget deficits, in order to make them allocate funds and inflating the currency in order to annihilate any competition from them. And it worked. Our trade balances became negative in no time, and sales of German products "miraculously" exploded in no time in the late 80s. And yes, the goverment spent likes there's no tomorrow, but again, where was the European Commission and all the member states to tell the government not to spend that much, with the Commission knowing everything here? The answer is, they didn't want to stop us spending. They intentionally let us so, so that we don't fix our budget and then concentrate on making our trade more competitive once again. Because EU = German supremacy over other member states.

My English is not as advanced as yours.
So in short words you are saying that Germany gave purposefully those loans to cause the economic crisis which will of course weaken Greece economically and it would make Greek market incompetent for antagonising the German market. I am not sure why would Germany think that the Greek market will antagonise the German market ever, not to mention that they lost billions of euros in debt to Greece. TBH it sounds more like a failed investment rather than some plot againist Geece.


Besides I would still think that a drug addict for his addiction is more guilty than his drug seller, if you understand the metaphorical example I am taking.

[Zeno]

My English is not as advanced as yours.
So in short words you are saying that Germany gave purposefully those loans to cause the economic crisis which will of course weaken Greece economically and it would make Greek market incompetent for antagonising the German market. I am not sure why would Germany think that the Greek market will antagonise the German market ever, not to mention that they lost billions of euros in debt to Greece. TBH it sounds more like a failed investment rather than some plot againist Geece.


Besides I would still think that a drug addict for his addiction is more guilty than his drug seller, if you understand the metaphorical example I am taking.

Well, no, this annihilation of the competition from Greece stems from the fact that Germany needed easier access to markets in Southeastern, Eastern and Southern Europe. And to have easier access to all of these markets it had eliminate Greece, which had a lot mighter presence in the area than Germany. Especially for the Balkans and Southern Europe. So, in order for German products to gain a stronghold in these markets, Greeks should be annihilated first. And it happened, and as a result our industry went down the shitter, entire regions where dozens of huge industrial plants once operated have seen tremendous economic decline. And the country as a whole lost tremendously, as we no longer were economically independent and we could no longer repay any loans we were given.

And no, they never lost any money from the crisis due to Greece. They gained from every country in the EU during the crisis.

[-Scar-]

Well, no, this annihilation of the competition from Greece stems from the fact that Germany needed easier access to markets in Southeastern, Eastern and Southern Europe. And to have easier access to all of these markets it had eliminate Greece, which had a lot mighter presence in the area than Germany. Especially for the Balkans and Southern Europe. So, in order for German products to gain a stronghold in these markets, Greeks should be annihilated first. And it happened, and as a result our industry went down the shitter, entire regions where dozens of huge industrial plants once operated have seen tremendous economic decline. And the country as a whole lost tremendously, as we no longer were economically independent and we could no longer repay any loans we were given.

Nahh, I don't buy it.

[Zeno]

Nahh, I don't buy it.

Ofc, you can't, you're an Albanian. You don't know economics at all, you just leech from others.