Spain, Portugal (Iberia) have Roman Italian DNA Video

[Hajimurad]

So what's a conclusion? Did Iberians received a large amount of Italic-Roman ancestry or not?

[Gallop]

Mine

Neolithic Age

8. Proto Thracian/Illyrian Vucedol
2775 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.09 - I3499

11. Bell Beaker Haunstetten Germany
2385 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.35 - UNTA58_68Sk1

12. Copper Age Alburg-Lerchenhaid Straubing Bavaria
2225 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.46 - I3590

13. Late Copper Age Italy
2600 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.49 - 9314_Oss

34. Cueva de la Paloma Spain
2350 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.17 - I3239

45. Copper Age Prague Kobylisy Czech
2220 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.67 - I4890

51. Copper Age Szigetszentmiklos Hungary
2350 BC - Genetic Distance: 13.22 - I704

52. Neolithic France
3500 BC - Genetic Distance: 13.25 - PEN001_real2

60. Copper Age Alburg-Lerchenhaid Straubing Bavaria
2225 BC - Genetic Distance: 13.47 - I3597

61. Celtiberian Mix Tribe Northern Spain
2300 BC - Genetic Distance: 13.49 - I3238

Early Bronze Age

9. Dolmen de Saint-Eugene Bronze Age France
1950 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.28 - EUG11

17. Early Bronze Age Mokrin Necropolis Serbia
1950 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.98 - MOK29

21. High Status Male Haunstetten
2059 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.38 - POST_44

32. Vatya Bronze Age Hungary
1750 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.12 - Rise483

36. North Alpine Bronze Age
1677 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.2 - AITI_98

37. Rec de Ligno Bronze Age France
2050 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.31 - PIR3037AB

38. Bronze Age Vatya Pannonia
1600 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.36 - Rise480

39. Early Bronze Age Mokrin Necropolis Serbia
1950 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.45 - MOK15

43. Le Pirou Valros Bronze Age France
1630 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.59 - Pir6

48. North Alpine Bronze Age
1794 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.9 - AITI_43

Late Bronze Age

15. Illyrian / Dalmatian
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.75 - I3313

33. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas
1290 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.13 - I12209

62. Menorca Late Bronze Age
861 BC - Genetic Distance: 13.55 - I3315

85. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas
1290 BC - Genetic Distance: 14.25 - I12208

106. Thraco-Cimmerian Black Sea
900 BC - Genetic Distance: 14.67 - MJ12

135. Bronze Age Niederergheim France
860 BC - Genetic Distance: 15.62 - NIED

137. Quinquiris Bronze Age Aude France
1200 BC - Genetic Distance: 15.68 - QUIN58

144. Villanovan Etruscan Italy VGG
850 BC - Genetic Distance: 15.88 - R1015

156. Bronze Age Spain Cogotas
1350 BC - Genetic Distance: 16.23 - ESP005

186. Protovillanovia Martinsicuro
930 BC - Genetic Distance: 16.97 - R1

Iron Age

7. Jebsen Boden Alsace France
500 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.03 - Jeb8

10. Etruscan Civitavecchia
650 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.31 - R474

16. Aquitani Pech-Maho France
350 BC - Genetic Distance: 10.9 - PECH8

25. Greco-Era Emporion
425 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.65 - I8341

30. Rhaeti Tribe Wartau Switzerland
88 BC - Genetic Distance: 11.91 - SX18

35. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan
600 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.19 - I4556

44. Iron Age Catalan
620 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.63 - I12640

46. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan
440 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.75 - I12878

47. Belgic Tribe Colmar France
340 BC - Genetic Distance: 12.77 - COL153i

53. Ilergetes Tribe Catalan
200 BC - Genetic Distance: 13.39 - I3320


Roman Age

2. Roman Soldier Germany
300 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.032 - FN_2

3. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany
300 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.04 - FN_2

6. Roman-Era Empuries
47 BC - Genetic Distance: 9.529 - I10866

19. Gallo-Roman Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.21 - R109

22. Late Roman Mix Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.46 - R105

24. Vasconic-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.54 - R110

28. Gallo-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.78 - R108

41. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.56 - R33

63. Roman-Carthago Mix Empuries
150 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.63 - I8475

71. Celtoiberian Outlier Roman Empire VP
100 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.88 - R116

Dark Ages

1. Visigoth Iberian Girona
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.765 - I12034

4. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.106 - CL94

18. Late Roman-Era Emporion
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.18 - I8343

20. Roman-Illyrian Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.31 - CL23

42. Carolingian Settlement Barcelona
790 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.58 - I7676

55. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.4 - CL47b

57. Medieval Piedmont
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.45 - CL57

58. Celtiberian Alemannic Mix
520 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.46 - STR_535

59. Early Medieval Andalusia
760 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.46 - I3585

73. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.94 - SZ28


Medieval Age

5. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis
880 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.193 - I10895

14. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis
1060 AD - Genetic Distance: 10.71 - I10852

26. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis
1060 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.65 - I10851

27. Medieval Villa Magna Italy
990 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.72 - R63

29. Late Medieval L'Esquerda Spain
1350 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.81 - T-145-2

31. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica
1485 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.94 - R1221

40. Viking St. Brice Massacre Oxford
1002 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.46 - VK146

49. Viking Age Karda Smaland Sweden
1000 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.0 - VK265

65. Girona Sant Julia de Ramis
1060 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.64 - I10853

69. Late Medieval Cancelleria Basilica
1429 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.84 - R1289


Early Modern Period

23. Le Mans Revolutionary France
1793 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.51 - LM_406_T

123. Marseilles Plague Victim
1721 AD - Genetic Distance: 15.24 - OBS137

159. Le Mans Revolutionary France
1793 AD - Genetic Distance: 16.35 - LM_306_T

172. Post-Reconquista Granada
1550 AD - Genetic Distance: 16.58 - I7425

182. Post-Reconquista Granada
1550 AD - Genetic Distance: 16.77 - I3809

198. Relic French King Louis XVI
1793 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.27 - LXVI

221. Marseilles Plague Victim
1721 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.64 - OBS116

234. Jean-Paul Marat Revolutionary France
1793 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.92 - Marat

351. Oxford Infirmiary
1790 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.25 - CSD

362. Late Medieval Latvia Riga Dome Church
1622 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.52 - RG161c


Your Outlier Samples...

319. Medieval La Palma Sardinia
941 AD - Genetic Distance: 20.49 - I12221

342. Carthago Outlier San Ercolano
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.0 - R121

361. Late Roman Iberia Granada
470 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.51 - I3576

378. Morisco Post-Reconquista Granada
1550 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.79 - I7424

1. Tuscan (10.76)
2. North_Italian (11.90)
3. West_Sicilian (12.70)
4. Kosovar (13.96)
5. Spanish_Andalucia (14.17)
6. Italian_Abruzzo (15.27)
7. Spanish_Extremadura (15.54)
8. Spanish_Murcia (15.71)

385. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.96 - I3581

387. Central Roman Mausoleo Augusto
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.03 - R32

389. North Alpine Middle Bronze Age Outlier
1756 BC - Genetic Distance: 22.08 - OTTM_154

392. Phoenician Cas Moli Ibiza
270 BC - Genetic Distance: 22.1 - MS10614

398. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.29 - SZ43

402. Germanic Mixed Tribe
505 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.35 - AED125b

403. Ostrogoth Frankish Mix
410 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.37 - STR_328

404. Byzantine Roman Warrior
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.4 - NS3b

415. Bronze Age Jinonice Prague Czech
2215 BC - Genetic Distance: 22.58 - I4896

419. Medieval Cancelleria Basilica
860 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.64 - R1283

430. Roman Villa Granada Spain
350 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.91 - I3983

435. Roman-Era Empuries
47 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.04 - I10865

440. Unetice Bohemia
1875 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.16 - Rise154

444. Carthago-Iberian-Mehrebi Cordoba Caliphate
950 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.22 - I7500

453. Carthaginian Roman-Era Empuries
200 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.42 - I8204

454. Avar Szolad Hungary
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.46 - SZ1

456. Late Neolithic Oberbipp Switzerland
2800 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.5 - MX299

457. Phoenician/Punic Sardinia Mount Sirai
675 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.52 - MSR003

459. Corded Ware Estonia
2460 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.53 - Rise595

460. North Alpine Middle Bronze Age
1593 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.55 - OTTM_142

462. Bronze Age Yehud Southern Levant
2250 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.61 - I6932

463. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.62 - SZ36

464. Post-Roman Sierra de Alhama
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.63 - I3584

465. Iberian / Ilergetes Tribe
550 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.63 - I3322

466. Carthago-Roman San Ercolano
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.67 - R120

469. Copper Age Rouffach Haut-Rhin France
2225 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.71 - I1391

470. Copper Age Beaker Brandysek Czech
2350 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.73 - I7276

472. Late Neolithic Oberbipp Switzerland
3300 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.73 - MX219

475. Tivoli Palace Late Renaissance
1650 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.77 - R970

477. Roman Empire Monterotondo
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.8 - R1540

478. Imperial Rome Cluana Ancona
165 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.81 - R836

481. Celt Hinxton Iron Age
45 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.85 - HI2

484. Bronze Age Leith Edinburgh Scotland
1535 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.87 - I5470

487. Carthago Outlier Roman Empire VP
100 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.93 - R113

488. Roman-Era Emporion
200 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.93 - I8205

489. Danish Gaelic Viking Iceland
935 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.94 - SSG-A2

490. Celtic Medieval Denmark
1250 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.95 - G973

491. Niedertiefenbach Western Germany
3200 BC - Genetic Distance: 23.96 - Niedertiefenbach40

494. Roman Mix San Ercolano
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 24.02 - R118

495. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 24.03 - SZ31

496. Western Scythian Ukraine
600 BC - Genetic Distance: 24.04 - MJ47

497. Neolithic Ireland
3200 BC - Genetic Distance: 24.06 - Ballynahatty

499. Germanic Medieval Duomo San Nicola Sardinia
1500 AD - Genetic Distance: 24.1 - SNN001

500. Bronze Age Chippenham Cambridgeshire England
1850 BC - Genetic Distance: 24.1 - I7639

547. Late Medieval Duomo San Nicola Sardinia
1450 AD - Genetic Distance: 25.04 - SNN001

[Hamilcar]

So what's a conclusion? Did Iberians received a large amount of Italic-Roman ancestry or not?

Yes they did (around 20-25% of the modern iberian genome) which is surprising because we don't see such impact in other regions of the empire

[Ranger0075]

Yes they did (around 20-25% of the modern iberian genome) which is surprising because we don't see such impact in other regions of the empire

not that surprise taking into consideration it's the only region of the empire which still speak latin derivated languages, I wonder about Romania tho

[Hajimurad]

Yes they did (around 20-25% of the modern iberian genome) which is surprising because we don't see such impact in other regions of the empire

Which regions?

[Hamilcar]

not that surprise taking into consideration it's the only region of the empire which still speak latin derivated languages, I wonder about Romania tho

that doesn't make sense because back then almost every region had its own latin dialect

[Hamilcar]

Which regions?

it's an average for the whole peninsula, the lowest amount is found in the basque region and the highest amount in the balearic islands

[Leto]

I regret getting involved in this thread, that was none of my business. Deleted my comments which weren't necessary. Peace out!

[Damião de Góis]

• The Gothic reference is I12162 from Girona, Spain. I selected this specific individual because he is the least admixed of the Visigothic samples - the others are too Iberian to be meaningful. I12162 plots with South Dutch, so there is still plenty of room for non Germanic admixture, but we shouldn't expect a far wandering people like the Visigoths to have been purely Germanic at the time they slipped into Iberia.
• There is an excess of Gothic in western Iberia, which may well be because Iberia_North_IA is not an adequate reference for the Celtiberian ancestry of west Iberians. The model can be significantly improved by getting Iron Age samples from the area.
• ITA_Rome_Imperial includes several very Near Eastern individuals, so it should be seen as Roman + Near Eastern rather than just Roman. Some people prefer to hone this reference and exclude these Near Easterners - that is what Aren did and it significantly increases the Roman percentage, but it disregards possible Near Eastern ancestry in Iberians.
• Ideally Iberia_North_IA should be substituted by a composite average of all available Iron Age Iberian samples.
  
• Guanches should be substituted by actual Medieval Berbers when we get them. I don't think there will be much difference between them.

Your points are all valid and rational. I appreciate especially the bolded ones, it's nice to see other people noticing what i've been saying for some time.

Is Roman blood something bad? Sure, I can understand if it's Moro or Negro but the Roman empire was pretty much the birthplace of Western civilization (of course including the Greeks).

It is what it is. What people are discussing here are the claims of 20 or 30% Roman ancestry based on speculative models which don't correlate with Y-DNA for example.

In my personal opinion i'm more fond of pre-roman people than i am of the subsequent invaders that came later (romans, barbarians and moors). And i think that's the general feeling here, which is why Viriato, the Lusitanian leader, has statues in Spain and Portugal. In Portugal people aren't knowledgeable of roman generals, visigoth or suebi kings or moorish kings. I personally don't know their names either.

In the particular case of romans, while their cultural legacy here is undeniable it's also a fact that their legions killed and enslaved people here, including backstabbing after making peace treaties.

[Gallop]

In Spain, for example, the list of the Goths had to be known by heart in public education for many decades. There is interest in the Romans, and many popular festivals recreate situations from Roman times. As for the Muslim period, it is lived from the perspective of the Reconquest, logically and more recently Iberian recreations are being made as well as Vikings but they are not traditional like the others, they are more modern.