View Poll Results: Where would you place France?

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  • Northern Europe

    4 30.77%
  • Southern Europe

    9 69.23%
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Thread: France

  1. #41
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    @Sebastianus Rex: far from the French being free-spirited individualists (at least in the Anglo-Saxon sense), for good and for ill it is one of the most statist and collectivist nations in the Western world (and probably more than even some non-Western nations too). The French (or a substantial percentage at least) LIKE high taxes, welfare and regulation - when they protest it is usually because the government is trying to take away those things: look how much shit Hollande and Sarkozy got just by trying to raise the state pension age from 60 to 62. One reason why many French people talk disparagingly about 'les Anglo-Saxons' - especially the Americans - is because they view the Anglosphere countries as being too individualistic and market-oriented. And no, France isn't more socially conservative than Anglosphere nations on sexual issues - quite the opposite: it legalised homosexuality two centuries before the likes of Britain, the US and Australia did, and notwithstanding attempts by radfems to change the law it is still more liberal regarding prostitution than the Anglosphere nations too.

  2. #42
    Veteran Member Ouistreham's Avatar
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    About the misunderstanding (im deutschem Kulturraum) on the meaning of "savoir-vivre":

    Quote Originally Posted by Immanenz View Post
    True, my mistake- since i remembered it from my French teacher explaining only the notion that i gave. Its actually a modern German saying- so they took it from French ( that means also they see French liiving according to that- would see it as a compliment.
    I wasn't aware of that so far. I just googled about it and realized that, indeed, the Germans sincerely believe "savoir-vivre" isn't about social etiquette and courtesy rituals but about enjoying food and the pleasures of life...
    See for instance:
    "Le savoir-vivre ist die Kunst, das Leben zu genießen. Franzosen gelten weit über die Grenzen hinaus als Lebenskünstler, Genießer und Kenner gehobener Lebensart."
    https://www.wissen.de/le-savoir-vivr...sche-lebensart

    It's mindboggling!
    There's a similar misunderstanding with the "Grande Nation" concept — which is absolutely unknown in France, but it seems everyone in Germany (and Austria) takes for granted that France calls itself that way, which offers an excuse to the journalists of Der Spiegel for the sarcastic French-hating ramblings they are notorious for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immanenz View Post
    my Gf who just happens to be only half Venetian, but is totally raised in the German speaking part of Italy- which is completely different to rest of Italy. (mountain people are overall different etc.).
    Wow, I see, you know South-Tyrol.
    I've been there a couple of times, six-seven years ago. Nowhere else in Europe is the North/South divide so sharp, it runs from a home to another, and sometimes between a flat and the neighbours upstairs in Bozen... It takes a few staircases to go from Milano to München, or from Naples to Hamburg. Incredible. It gave me the sensation of an apartheid-based society, the Italian invaders living in their own world with their own schools and administrations, but people told me the situation was much less tense than decades ago.
    Last edited by Ouistreham; 01-13-2021 at 09:09 PM.

  3. #43
    Alma portuguesa Damiăo de Góis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolfrenchguy View Post
    Off topic, but that should be Kingdom of Asturias not Kingdom of Galicia.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damiăo de Góis View Post
    Off topic, but that should be Kingdom of Asturias not Kingdom of Galicia.
    I also noticed it but I did not comment because what for... After all all these maps circulating on internet are so amateur that hurts

  5. #45
    Alma portuguesa Damiăo de Góis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo View Post
    I also noticed it but I did not comment because what for... After all all these maps circulating on internet are so amateur that hurts
    Yeah a lot of fake maps around. I thought wikipedia maps were validated by someone. There's another one of the wiki entry of Charlemagne.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charle...n_to_the_south

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeton90 View Post
    If you are to categorise Europe into Northern Europe and Southern Europe, where would you place France?
    I would rather place it then to Northern Europe (if you really dont give me any third choice).

    But France is THE VERY DEFINITION of WESTERN EUROPE, but ok, I understand what you're asking, if I dont have any other choice except those 2, then Northern Europe.

  7. #47
    Achaean,not Patrian Faklon's Avatar
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    French and Austrian patisserie (along with the Big Mac) hail from Ottoman recipes that by extend hail from Byzantine recipes that by extend hail from the subanimal inventors of watermills who made men fat and weak. Otherwise, the empire was totally moral.

    Now, the etiquette and cafe shit are in some way means of socialization close to all South European cultures. Still the notion of saying "Salut" instead of "Fuck you malaka" (or say nothing in Northern Europe) to someone you dislike and that the cafes should remain silent show some form of organization unheard here.


    Adult men kissing each other should rather not to be considered a wholly Southern European trait. We have Gayreeks but a pat on the back is enough most of the time.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aren View Post
    Complaining about the taxes and the government is commonplace everywhere. It's important to put this into perspective though. Are the French complaints comparable to that we hear from Eastern or Southern Europeans? Definitely not. There are alarming issues that are being brought up in those countries, like obvious corruption, extreme youth unemployment, wages that are a slap in the face especially for the college-educated, basic problems with democracy etc. The French issues in comparison are quite pale - but like I said perspective is important.


    I'm not sure if the governmental passing of gay marriage has much merit here - many countries adapted it late when the population was clearly for it. The French are one of the most liberal in Europe when it comes to social norms. Views on sex, marriage, religion, divorce, children out of wedlock, gays, openess to other cultures/races etc all are extremely similar to that of what we see in the protestant NW. There's hardly a discussion here.

    In my opinion France formed distinctly from southern Europe mainly during the early 20th century due to it's greater political and economical stability, both comparing France better with say Britain, the low Countries and Scandinavia rather than to southern Europe. During the interwar period when fascist and dictators were ruling most of southern and eastern Europe, France was turning into a modern democracy like other countries in NW Europe sans Germany.
    One of the defining differences today between the southwest and northwest is the economy. France has been for centuries one of the richest countries in Europe, even today it's economy is on par with the UK. It has wages and a cost of living similar to that of other NW countries rather than Spain or Italy which is why we never have France included in terms like PIGS.
    Living under a dictatorship where you know you're freedom and rights are limited takes a great toll on the general view of life. Likewise when the economical situation leaves much to be desired for. IMO these two things were vital for the formation of the modern European nations.

    I'm pretty sure most everyday people eat dinner past 6 here in Sweden.
    Aren, the french complaints are much worse than you see in southern Europe (even worse than the protests in Greece during the last crisis), see the yellow vests movements and all the social turmoil in the last years.

    Also if you know them well, the french have a propension to go against laws/government when they have the chance.

    Imo, all these cultural aspects and their lifestyle makes them closer to southern euros than to hardcore northern euros.

    The economy it's not a measurement factor in this topic, yes France is part of the industrial core of Europe but is northern Italy (the second most industrial region of Europe after the Ruhr region in Germany) and also some other regions of southern Europe such as Madrid and Catalonia are per capita richer and more industrial than most regions in northern Europe).

  9. #49
    Senior Member Polak's Avatar
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    They are their own thing tbh. Northern France around Normandy, Champagne and Ile-de-France is closer to NW Europe, like Germany, the Benelux and the British Isles, whilst Southern France is without a doubt closer to Mediterranean Europe. If I had to pick I'd choose Southern though, because of the language and culture.

    Slavic (AD 540–1270) 64.0%
    Baltic (AD 260–540) 21.2%
    Germanic (AD 100–630) 7.6%
    European Jew (AD 1160–1400) 6.0%
    Sinitic (1230 BC–AD 1670) 1.2%
    Fit: 2.626

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