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Thread: Genetic studies, social structure, and some inconsistencies

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    Quote Originally Posted by aruncaz View Post
    I understand science but seems like ancestral genetics is not my cup of tea.
    Genetics is actually a very interesting topic but cannot be 100% politically correct like you expected. Labeling Bosnians who live in Turkey as “Turkish” on genetic researchers would create some misconceptions and errors. Simply, most of the NW Balkans would be genetically modeled as part Turkish, even though those people have no ancestral connection with Turkish people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeton90 View Post
    Labeling Bosnians who live in Turkey as “Turkish” on genetic researchers would create some misconceptions and errors. Simply, most of the NW Balkans would be genetically modeled as part Turkish, even though those people have no ancestral connection with Turkish people.
    Why would it create such an error?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aruncaz View Post
    Why would it create such an error?
    It is obvious that Bosnians who live in Turkey are much closer to native Bosnians, Serbians, Croatians than they are to Anatolian Turks. If you label Bosnians from Turkey as "Turkish" or "Anatolian" then most Serbians, Croatians, Bosnians would be very close to "Turkish cluster" and it might create a wrong image as if natives of NW Balkans are ancestrally very close to Turks or Anatolians, which is very misleading and not correct at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeton90 View Post
    It is obvious that Bosnians who live in Turkey are much closer to native Bosnians, Serbians, Croatians than they are to Anatolian Turks. If you label Bosnians from Turkey as "Turkish" or "Anatolian" then most Serbians, Croatians, Bosnians would be very close to "Turkish cluster" and it might create a wrong image as if natives of NW Balkans are ancestrally very close to Turks or Anatolians, which is very misleading and not correct at all.
    Thank you, but I still think like what I wrote in the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korialstrasz View Post
    Yes and no.

    In the grand scheme of things; after a significant amount of time, those ethnicities *may* dissipate into the overarching Turkish identity, and may become just extra admixture in the final average. But this is quite the late-Ottoman early-Republic Turkish viewpoint that the Turkish identity is not genetic heritage but rather a social construct. This is quite outdated and has proven to be dysfunctional, as in the case of Kurds. Therefore, it is pretty dangerous to try and perpetuate it in the sake of continuous existence of the mononational Turkish state. Turkey is not homogenous and and it is quite likely that it is never going to feel that way. I for one have always found it difficult to relate myself to fundamentalists, nationalists, Kurds, Arabs and Turanists, whatever. And I am pretty sure the definition we had of the Turkish identity had been diametrically opposed.

    At the same time, attributing the identity mostly to genetics is fairly moronic and it gives way to the possibility of a racist understanding of the identity.
    Now that we have consumer genetics, it *should be* harder just to come up with a wacky idea that pretty much the entireity of Eurasia is Turkish. Even those with alleged ethnic Turkish background have received their admixture from god knows where. Genetics should now be taken at face value and nothing more than that. We all have so many ancestors even in a few generations back that it is impossible to base the identity solely on ancestry. Does it even matter? The Turkish identity has much more prominent issues at hand than its genetic make-up.
    A nigger can't become French, he is not;
    A nigger can't become Chinese, he isn't
    A nigger can't become Pole, he isn't

    Etc

    Identity is basic racist, it is so, it is nature, either we accept it or we are anti-racist (denial of reality). Racism is a natural thing in every population of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashball View Post
    A nigger can't become French, he is not;
    A nigger can't become Chinese, he isn't
    A nigger can't become Pole, he isn't

    Etc

    Identity is basic racist, it is so, it is nature, either we accept it or we are anti-racist (denial of reality). Racism is a natural thing in every population of the world.
    No. Racism is not normal. At least, not in civil life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aruncaz View Post
    No. Racism is not normal. At least, not in civil life.
    Racism is a natural thing in all civilizations: people prefer not to mix and stay with people of the same race. Among the pygmies, there is racism, in Japan there is, in China, etc. It is natural to prefer your own people to other peoples. And it's natural not to want to live in a multiracial society

    Multiracial is the erasure of all racial differences, since the "multiracial world" according to antiracists (like you) would become a mixed world where there would be interbreeding everywhere and where there would be no more interest in traveling.

    Multiracialism leads to a conflictual society, it suffices to look at Brazil and all the multiracial societies in the world to perceive the unreliability of such a project.

    And do not give me the Sumero-Akkadian society as an example: this multiracial and multicultural society ended with a replacement of the Sumerian populations by the Akkadians.

    In a multiracial society, either the indigenous people are replaced by miscegenation or genocide, in the case of the Sumerians their "multiracial" society lasted a short time, before the Akkadians completely replaced the Sumerians in genetic and cultural terms (we can see that Akkadian culture completely had dominated, especially in terms of customs, since the Sumerians had different customs from Akkadians, Semitic people)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashball View Post
    Racism is a natural thing in all civilizations: people prefer not to mix and stay with people of the same race. Among the pygmies, there is racism, in Japan there is, in China, etc. It is natural to prefer your own people to other peoples. And it's natural not to want to live in a multiracial society

    Multiracial is the erasure of all racial differences, since the "multiracial world" according to antiracists (like you) would become a mixed world where there would be interbreeding everywhere and where there would be no more interest in traveling.

    Multiracialism leads to a conflictual society, it suffices to look at Brazil and all the multiracial societies in the world to perceive the unreliability of such a project.

    And do not give me the Sumero-Akkadian society as an example: this multiracial and multicultural society ended with a replacement of the Sumerian populations by the Akkadians.

    In a multiracial society, either the indigenous people are replaced by miscegenation or genocide, in the case of the Sumerians their "multiracial" society lasted a short time, before the Akkadians completely replaced the Sumerians in genetic and cultural terms (we can see that Akkadian culture completely had dominated, especially in terms of customs, since the Sumerians had different customs from Akkadians, Semitic people)
    Assuming that you are a native French. You are predominantly Neolithic Farmer with significant European Hunter-Gatherer and Ancient North Eurasian in you. Therefore, you are also “mixed” like the other French, Italian, Turkish, German people and etc.

    By the way, Neolithic Farmers, Ancient North Eurasians and European Hunter-Gatherers were three different races because they did not have any genetic overlap and the genetic distances between them were significantly high.

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    Multiculturalism is doomed to fail or rather, it was never meant to succeed to begin with. In my opinion you can have a "multiracial" (I'm not talking necessarily black and white) society ONLY with a common culture, especially/particularly religion. Other than that, it's gonna be a bloody mess unless it's forcefully contained by an authoritarian government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aruncaz View Post
    Assuming that you are a native French. You are predominantly Neolithic Farmer with significant European Hunter-Gatherer and Ancient North Eurasian in you. Therefore, you are also “mixed” like the other French, Italian, Turkish, German people and etc.

    By the way, Neolithic Farmers, Ancient North Eurasians and European Hunter-Gatherers were three different races because they did not have any genetic overlap and the genetic distances between them were significantly high.
    Yeah, and that was a genocide or racial/ethnic replacement. Not peaceful but violent. Also it lasted for many, many generations unlike today when a million migrants can move in just in one single year.

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