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Thread: Which are the most gender-egalitarian societies in the world? (Outside Scandinavia)

  1. #11
    Veteran Member Ouistreham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gredos View Post
    Spain definitely not, women have many privileges and advantages than men, the access requirements are lower, in the administration many women are selected only for the fact of being women, companies and all kinds of associations receive subsidies for selecting women, even justice is different according to sex (not even the most sacred thing that is justice has been respected). Now they are trying to get them to earn the same average salary as men, by doing jobs that are much easier, more comfortable, and safer.

    at times it gives the feeling that they are incapacitated rather than the opposite sex. In the end all this reaffirms those who think they are inferior to men. In this case it seems to me good that they have a special treatment, although this hurts a lot those women who fought for equality, and who deservedly won it. Now it is no longer possible to know if a woman deserves what she has, or has been given it for being a woman. So many decades of effort to flush it all down the toilet
    Affirmative action is the ultimate expression of contempt towards inferiors...

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    Veteran Member Ouistreham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    That was called "mayorazgo" and was a institution originated in Castille, and used anywhere in Spain, could be more usual in the Basque Country because here existed more "hidalgos" due to that what was called "hidalguía universal".
    Actually, this family model originated in the Northern stripe of Spain (the districts that were early reconqueered, where the feudal organization became quickly rooted)), but most of Castilla and the rest of Spain —for various reasons— ended up with a nuclear family system not unlike to France, Britain, Denmark, Poland etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    The "mayorazgo" allowed to appoint, if it was deemed convenient, a woman as head.
    THIS is the point. It was absolutely specific to the Basque provinces (but I read somewhere that traces of this model are still found among the Northern Spanish coast, in Asturias).
    BTW have you heard of the "Hipótesis del matriarcalismo vasco"?
    At any rate it never existed in über-machista Catalonia: there, not having male heirs was and is still seen as the worst possible misfortune.


    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    Similar institutions existed too in your country, as far as I know,(Majorat?), and in Germany or Poland, but I don´t know if they accepted too women as "rulers" of familiar "patrimony".
    The mayorazgo is also the popular custom in half of France, most of Germany and Austria, Scotland, Northern Spain, and Japan, and under mixed forms in Belgium, North-Eastern Italy, Slovenia, Czechia, Ireland, and parts of Sweden.
    On the other hand Northern France, England, Holland, Denmark, and most of Spain, are strictly nuclear (as soon as sons and daughters get married and leave the home, their parents have no more authority on them).

    Strangely, in the peripheral areas of Northern France (Lorraine, Flanders, Brittany), there is a weird family system we can call "minorazgo" (ultimogéniture): the youngest son inherits all of the farm (of the house, the shop), but in exchange he has to look after his parents and grand-parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    Editrobably women are accepted too in your countries as head of Majorat, I am thinking that the rules of succession are quite similar to those of the noble houses, including the royal houses, and all accept at any given time, women as "rulers".
    Oh no. In the beginning, the Frankish kings had the idiotic habit of dividing their kingdoms between their sons. Their intent was to make everyone happy, but that invariably ended up in civil wars. So, at some point, they introduced tha Salic Law, which decided that "primogeniture mâle" would prevail. And at the same time they ruled that a queen would only be the King's spouse, NEVER the chief of State!


    EDIT: the alleged Basque matriarchy allows to understand why the Basque provinces have been exporting countless soldiers, monks, Jesuit priests and missionaries to the rest of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouistreham View Post
    Actually, this family model originated in the Northern stripe of Spain (the districts that were early reconqueered, where the feudal organization became quickly rooted)), but most of Castilla and the rest of Spain —for various reasons— ended up with a nuclear family system not unlike to France, Britain, Denmark, Poland etc.


    THIS is the point. It was absolutely specific to the Basque provinces (but I read somewhere that traces of this model are still found among the Northern Spanish coast, in Asturias).
    BTW have you heard of the "Hipótesis del matriarcalismo vasco"?
    At any rate it never existed in über-machista Catalonia: there, not having male heirs was and is still seen as the worst possible misfortune.



    The mayorazgo is also the popular custom in half of France, most of Germany and Austria, Scotland, Northern Spain, and Japan, and under mixed forms in Belgium, North-Eastern Italy, Slovenia, Czechia, Ireland, and parts of Sweden.
    On the other hand Northern France, England, Holland, Denmark, and most of Spain, are strictly nuclear (as soon as sons and daughters get married and leave the home, their parents have no more authority on them).

    Strangely, in the peripheral areas of Northern France (Lorraine, Flanders, Brittany), there is a weird family system we can call "minorazgo" (ultimogéniture): the youngest son inherits all of the farm (of the house, the shop), but in exchange he has to look after his parents and grand-parents.


    Oh no. In the beginning, the Frankish kings had the idiotic habit of dividing their kingdoms between their sons. Their intent was to make everyone happy, but that invariably ended up in civil wars. So, at some point, they introduced tha Salic Law, which decided that "primogeniture mâle" would prevail. And at the same time they ruled that a queen would only be the King's spouse, NEVER the chief of State!


    EDIT: the alleged Basque matriarchy allows to understand why the Basque provinces have been exporting countless soldiers, monks, Jesuit priests and missionaries to the rest of the world.
    Yes I heard a lot about the Matriarcado, and has been and if it is an entirely false phenomenon, at least it has been greatly exaggerated, and they were better reasons many times explained to understand why many Basques went to America.



    The Salic law it did not prevent a woman from inheriting the throne, it only favored the male on equal terms.

    In the Basque Country, there were the same numer of public figures who were women, with real power, as in any other part of Europe, and it is easy to see what their influence was, when we see that in the medieval "provincial council lists", (las juntas generales, las juntas forales), there was not a single woman for centuries..

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    Veteran Member Ouistreham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    If you look at Hofstede...
    You better don't.
    Geert Hofstede's findings are pretty much crap.
    The man was a master in making money with pseudoscience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmar View Post
    Any Germanic society or strongly influenced by Germanic cultures.
    It's not that simple.
    Advanced societies tend to be more gender-egalitarian, and Germanic cultures are among the most advanced. Thus there can arguably be a link.

    But: Switzerland, the most successful and advanced country in Europe, was the last to generalize women's suffrage. The Canton Appenzell-Innerrhoden / Appenzell-Rhodes Intérieures didn't introduce it prior to 1990.

    (Here we can make the question: is Switzerland the only succesfully working democracy in Europe because they escaped women's suffrage much longer than other countries?)

    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    The Salic law it did not prevent a woman from inheriting the throne
    It explicitely did!

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    New Zealand, I guess

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    Yes I heard a lot about the Matriarcado, and has been and if it is an entirely false phenomenon, at least it has been greatly exaggerated
    Yep, I just checked the matter, it sounds like a fishy story, as often happens in cultural studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    they were better reasons many times explained to understand why many Basques went to America.
    Obviously, demographic pressure, Basque fishermen's transatlantic connections and the availability of sea transport to the Rio de la Plate were predominant factors.
    However, the overabundance of Basque soldiers and Catholic missionaries must be significant in some way. As if carreers in the Army or the Church allowed to reach levels of authorities women couldn't access and thus offered young men the opportunity not to obey anymore their elder sisters. I see a pattern.

    Similar phenomenons have been documented in Gascony, a French province that was for a long time strongly Basque-influenced.

    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    In the Basque Country, there were the same numer of public figures who were women, with real power, as in any other part of Europe, and it is easy to see what their influence was, when we see that in the medieval "provincial council lists", (las juntas generales, las juntas forales), there was not a single woman for centuries..
    Urban aristocracies aren't representative of what happens at the basic level of societies, among simple commoners and peasants, and strongly contribute to shape collective mindsets.

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    I think Catalonia, many people don't know but catalans are very leftist in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouistreham View Post
    You better don't.
    Geert Hofstede's findings are pretty much crap.
    The man was a master in making money with pseudoscience.


    It's not that simple.
    Advanced societies tend to be more gender-egalitarian, and Germanic cultures are among the most advanced. Thus there can arguably be a link.

    But: Switzerland, the most successful and advanced country in Europe, was the last to generalize women's suffrage. The Canton Appenzell-Innerrhoden / Appenzell-Rhodes Intérieures didn't introduce it prior to 1990.

    (Here we can make the question: is Switzerland the only succesfully working democracy in Europe because they escaped women's suffrage much longer than other countries?)


    It explicitely did!
    -I'm just telling you that both in practice and in written laws in the Basque country there was no real matriarchy, and that the term "etxekoandre" (lady of the house), nowadays is used to designate a mother who does not work outside of domestic chores, equivalent to the Spanish "ama de casa"(housewife).

    In the strange case (as in any place in Spain or Europe) that a woman had a government position or was considered the head of any institution, at the time she married that power passed to her friend on many occasions, and if not, in the next generation the eldest son was elected again for that position. That is the definitive test to see that there was no matriarchy, that a woman did not inherit from a woman, if she had an older brother. And so it worked even in royal houses in countries under the Salic law, they are many samples of Queens in any European Royal house, even female regents.

    In the case of the Basque "mayorazgos", I can assure you that it was so, for a close case that I know.

    -The emigration of Basques, which was especially notable in the early days of American colonization, especially among notable people, has nothing to do with any effect of the matriarchy and is explained by what I have told you.

    The consideration of "old Christian/Cristiano Viejo" / "old Castilian/Castellano Viejo" the phenomenon of "limpieza de sangre","universal hidalguía" (see "Vizcainía" in the case of Basques), led to an overrepresentation of Basques in public positions (the same in high positions of the church or the army, or the civil service), so the north of Spain (not just the Basque country) was overrepresented in the early days of American colonization.

    Another phenomenom was the "Segundones", those who did not inherit sufficient property,because the eldest son inherited it mostly, since they could not dedicate themselves to jobs considered common people, to earn a living had to choose between serving the king (army or civil service) or being part of the church, those were who mostly went to America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouistreham View Post
    • Russia : some surveys have shown that in the traditional peasant society average housewives were slightly older than their husbands and had authority over them.
    That way you understand the somewhat unpleasant manly behaviour of Russian policewomen and female executives (they are often ruthless bitches).
    What surveys do you mean? All I could find on this subject state the opposite - on average husbands were older, but by a slight margin like a couple of years.
    Linking behaviour of modern police women of RF to the traditional peasant culture is just too risqué. I guess they're not worse than their male colleagues but the whole bunch just serves a rotten (pro nwo) regime that doesn't tolerate any better.
    Last edited by Rumata; 01-10-2021 at 03:31 PM.

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    Veteran Member Ouistreham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
    I think Catalonia, many people don't know but catalans are very leftist in general.
    Quite right.
    The Catalans are culturally conservative but politically leftist.
    I know, in Southernmost France (Languedoc, Roussillon) we have a watered down version of that weird configuration, leftist traditionalist to sum it up.

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