If Morocco was Hispanized from Spain?

[Lozano]

In terms of Infrastructure you seem to exaggerate, I mean did you know that was Morocco too ? :

I can put you better pics and videos from Abuja in Nigeria. But that's not the point

My point is that your infraestructure and logistic indexes indicate that your level of development is lower than most latin american developed nations. Not even talking about gdp per capita
And I wasn't only talking only about Morocco, which it results to be the more developed in magreb, but also Algeria, Lybia,Egypt...

https://lpi.worldbank.org/internatio...Infrastructure

As for climate, you're wrong if you think most maghrebis live in the Sahara. Most maghrebis live in the Tell region which is the mediterranean part of the maghreb. Did you know that was Morocco too ?

Do you really believe those images are from entire Moroccan territory for the most part?

I was refering to the whole morrocan territory. Not those parts more densily populated. And the truth is that you're climate is dry and not precisely so good for farming compared to america

[RMuller]

It took about 2 years, but the Aztec Empire also wasn't all that big, it took them around 10-20 years to conquer all of Mexico and Guatemala.

Nope. Their was the Chichimeca War in North central Mexico between 1555-1590 and the Spaniards had to bribe the Chichimeca for peace.

Chichimeca War

The Chichimeca War (1550–90) was a military conflict between the Spanish Empire and the Chichimeca Confederation established in the territories today known as the Central Mexican Plateau, called by the Conquistadores La Gran Chichimeca. The epicenter of the hostilities was the region now called the Bajío. The Chichimeca War is recorded as the longest and most expensive military campaign confronting the Spanish Empire and indigenous people in Mesoamerica. The forty-year conflict was settled through several peace treaties driven by the Spaniards which led to the pacification and, ultimately, the streamlined integration of the native populations into the New Spain society.



The Chichimeca War (1550-1590) began eight years after the two-year Mixtón War. It can be considered a continuation of the rebellion as the fighting did not come to a halt in the intervening years. Unlike in the Mixtón rebellion, the Caxcanes were now allied with the Spanish. The war was fought in what are the present-day Mexican states of Zacatecas, Guanajuato, Aguascalientes, Jalisco, Queretaro, and San Luis Potosí.

The Chichimecas were nomadic and semi-nomadic people who occupied the large desert basin stretching from present day Saltillo and Durango in the north to Querétaro and Guadalajara in the south. Within this area of about 160,000 square kilometres (62,000 sq mi), the Chichimecas lived primarily by hunting and gathering, especially mesquite beans, the edible parts of the agave plants, and the fruit (tunas) and leaves of cactus. In favored areas some of the Chichimeca grew corn and other crops. Chichimeca population is hard to estimate, although based on the average density of nomadic cultures they probably numbered 30,000 to 60,000.[5] The Chichimecas lived in rancherias of crude shelters or natural shelters such as caves, frequently moving from one area to another to take advantage of seasonal foods and hunting. The Chichimeca referred to themselves as "Children of the Wind", living religiously from the natural land. The characteristics most noted about them by the Spanish was that both women and men wore little clothing, grew their hair long, and painted and tattooed their bodies. They were often accused of cannibalism, although this accusation has been disputed, due to the Spanish attempt to smear natives as savages in order to justify forced conversion to Catholicism by Spain during the Mexican Inquisition.[6]

The Chichimecas Confederation consisted of four main nations: Guachichiles, Pames, Guamares, and Zacatecos. These nations had decentralized governments, and were more of independent states.[7] Due to decentralized political unity, their territories overlapped and other Chichimecs joined one or another in raids.

The nomadic culture of the Chichimecas made it difficult for the Spanish to defeat them. The bow was their principal weapon and one experienced observer said the Zacatecos were "the best archers in the world." Their bows were short, usually less than four feet long, their arrows were long and thin and made of reed and tipped with obsidian, volcanic rock sharper than a modern-day razor. Despite the fragility of the obsidian arrows they had excellent penetrating qualities, even against Spanish armor which was de rigueur for soldiers fighting the Chichimeca. Many-layered buckskin armor was preferred to chain mail as obsidian arrows penetrated the links of the mail.[11]

The Chichimeca bow and arrow was expertly crafted allowing for penetration of Spanish armor. There are two Spanish accounts of the Chichimeca's archery skill that Powell writes in his book: On one occasion I saw them throw an orange into the air, and they shot into it so many arrows that, having held it in the air for much time, it finally fell in minute pieces" (Powell 48). "One of don Alonso de Castilla's soldiers had an arrow pass through the head of his horse, including a crownpiece of double buckskin and metal, and into his chest, so he fell with the horse dead on the ground 'this was seen by many who are still living' (Powell 48). The Chichimeca were a nomadic culture making them very mobile and experts of rough terrain with vegetation filled (mostly cactus) land in which they always looked for hiding spots. "His long use of the food native to the Gran Chichimeca gave him far greater mobility than the sedentary invader, who was tied to domesticated livestock, agriculture, and imported supplies. The Chichimeca could and did cut off these supplies, destroy the livestock, and thus paralyze the economic and military vitality of the invaders; this was seldom possible in reverse" (Powell 44). They attacked in small groups ranging from five to two hundred warriors. In one account, with only fifty Zacateco warriors, the Chichimeca killed two hundred Spaniard soldiers in one battle. They had no shortage of raiding parties because of the highly valued supplies attracting warriors from far off allowing for the highest quality of trade goods.

As the war escalated, both the Spanish and Chichimeca adapted and bettered their defensive and offensive tactics. "He [The Chichimeca] sent spies into Spanish towns for appraisal of the enemy's plans and strength; he developed a far-flung system of lookouts and scouts (atalays); and, in major attacks, settlements were softened by preliminary and apparently systematic killing and stealing of horses and other livestock, this being an attempt, sometimes successful, to change his intended victim from horseman to foot soldier" (Powell 46). When they attacked they used a very good tactic that terrified the animals and scared the Spanish. The Guachichil especially would disguise themselves as grotesque animals using animal heads and paint then yelled like crazed beasts making the Spanish lose control of horses and livestock. The Spanish started to set up many forts, bought mercenaries, and tried to use as many slaves as they could.

Chichimeca battle tactics were mostly ambushes and raids on the Spanish. Some of their raids were conducted by up to 200 men, groups of 40 to 50 warriors were more common, about the size of a modern infantry company or platoon with attachments, respectively. During the war, the Chichimecas learned to ride horses and use them in war. This was perhaps the first time that the Spanish in North America faced mounted Native warriors.[12] The undeniable advantage for the Spanish was their use of horses and other animals of burden that they had introduced to the Americas. Horses were unknown to the Americas before the Spanish imported them in 1519.

The conflict proved much more difficult and enduring than the Spanish anticipated. The first outbreak of hostilities was in late 1550 when Zacatecos attacked supply routes of Purépecha. A few days later they were attacking Spanish colonies less than 10 miles (16 km) south of modern-day Zacatecas. In 1551 the Guachichile and Guamares joined in, killing 14 Spanish soldiers at an outpost of San Miguel de Allende and forcing abandonment. Other raids near Tlaltenango were reported to have killed 120 Spanish within a few months. Some crucial raids of the early years of the war took place in 1553 and 1554 when many wagon trains on the road to Zacatecas were attacked, all the Spanish en route were killed, and the very substantial sums of 32,000 and 40,000 pesos in goods taken or destroyed. (By comparison, the annual salary of a Spanish soldier was only 300 pesos.) By the end of 1561 it was estimated that more than 4,000 Spaniards and their native allies had been killed by the Chichimecas. Prices for imported food and other commodities in Zacetacas had doubled or tripled due to the dangers of transporting the goods to the city. In the 1570s the rebellion spread as Pames began raiding near Querétaro.[13]

The Spanish government first attempted measures of both carrot and stick to attempt to tamp down the war, but, those failing, in 1567 it adopted the policy of a "war of fire and blood" (fuego y sangre) – promising death, enslavement, or mutilation to the Chichimeca. One of the priorities of the Spaniards throughout the war was to keep the roads open to Zacatecas and the silver mines – especially the Camino Real from San Miguel de Allende. Without these crucial economic roads open, the Spanish would not be able to fund the war or continue supporting settlements. To do so they created a dozen new presidios (forts), staffed by Spanish soldiers and native ally soldiers, and encouraged more Spanish people to settle in new areas, including what would be the nucleus of the future cities of Celaya, León, Aguascalientes, and San Luis Potosí.

The first main forts were in San Miguel, San Felipe in 1562 and Nombre de Dios in 1563. Yet even then the Chichimeca managed to achieve successes. By 1571, most of the Chichimeca nations were raiding towns and crucial economic routes. In a letter from fry Guillermo de Santa Maria to fry Alonso de Alvarado, it was stated that: "Later those same Zacatecos, made another assault against Onate and Ybara, one legue from Zenaguilla del Monte and three from the mining town of Zacatecas, of which they did a lot of damage" (Santa 220 (1)). After 1560, and especially in the decade of the 1570s, the Chichimecas turned to the raiding of several towns. In a letter written October 31, 1576 by the viceroy of New Spain from the city of Mexico to King Felipe II of Spain he stated: "We need for some quantity of soldiers to be sent, and to be paid a royal salary as agreed upon by the V.M. and of which the V.M. will send to be paid, a third of the Royal Hacienda (in Mexico city), and by the miners and those interested" (Hernandez 326 (2)). Also reported in the same letter: "No one can sustain the war, the cost is too big, neither in arms nor in squadrons can we sustain war. The situation is very crucial, we don't have weapons, squadrons, food because every day our livestock gets stolen or killed of which sustaining the cattle has been very difficult. We don't have enough funds to keep the people happy. Everyone agrees that we need support from the royal box" (Hernandez 326 (3)).

Even after offensives were fully financed by the royal treasury; from 1575 to 1585 the Chichimeca started attacking with even greater military force. In a letter from the viceroy of New Spain, Conde de Coruna, to Felipe II on April 1, 1581: "I have let the V.M. understand about the happenings with the Chichimeca War and about how dire the situation is that all the mines in those districts where the Natives are engaging in battle, and with such a great number and that many mines in Zacatecas are closed" (Hernandez 340 (4)). The Spanish did not attain more success even when they tried other tactics of trickery and deceit. The royal road was destroyed and there was no Spanish fort that was not also destroyed within the Guachihile territory.

The increase in number of Spanish soldiers in the Gran Chichimeca was not entirely favorable to the war effort as the soldiers often supplemented their income by slave-raiding, thus reinforcing the animosity of the Chichimeca. Despite the influx of Spanish settlers and soldiers from Southern Mexico to the Gran Chichimeca, the Spanish were always short of soldiers compared to the Chichimeca ever growing recruitment of raiders, often staffing their presidios with only three Spaniards. The Spaniards, even with the assistance from other native soldiers and auxiliaries, especially the Caxcans, the Purépecha, and the Otomi, could not rival the Chichimeca Confederation. The native allies were rewarded with Spanish colonized land, and native soldiers were allowed to ride Spanish horses and carry Spanish swords, formerly banned for use by native allies.[14]

Purchase for Peace

As the war continued unabated, it became clear that the Spanish policy of a war of fire and blood had failed. The royal treasury was being emptied by the demands of the war. Churchmen and others who had initially supported the war of fire and blood now questioned the policy. Mistreatment and enslavement of Chichimeca women, children, and men by Spaniards increasingly came to be seen as the cause of the war. In 1574, the Dominicans, contrary to the Augustinians and Franciscans, declared that the Chichimeca War was unjust and caused by Spanish aggression.[15] Thus, to end the conflict, the Spanish began to change public policy to purchase peace from the Chichimeca and assimilate with them.

In 1584, the Bishop of Guadalajara made a proposal for a "Christian remedy" to the war: the establishment of new towns with priests, soldiers, and friendly Indians to gradually Christianize the Chichimecas. The Viceroy, Alvaro Manrique de Zuniga, followed this idea in 1586 with a policy of removing many Spanish soldiers from the frontier as they were considered more a provocation than a remedy. The Viceroy opened negotiations with Chichimeca leaders and negotiated tools, food, clothing, and land to encourage them through "gentle persuasion". He forbade further failing military operations. One of the key people behind these negotiations was Miguel Caldera, a captain who was of both Spanish and Guachichile descent. Beginning in 1590 and continuing for several decades the Spanish implemented the "Purchase for Peace" program by sending large quantities of goods northward to be distributed to the Chichimecas. In 1590 the Viceroy declared the program a success and the roads to Zacatecas safe for the first time in 40 years.[16]

The next step, in 1591, was for a new Viceroy, Luis de Velasco, with help from others such as Caldera, to persuade 400 families of Tlaxcalan Indians, old allies of the Spanish, to establish eight settlements in Chichimeca areas. They served as Christian examples to the Chichimecas and taught animal husbandry and farming to them. In return for moving to the frontier, the Tlaxcalans extracted concessions from the Spanish, including land grants, freedom from taxes, the right to carry arms, and provisions for two years. The Spanish also took steps to curb slavery on Mexico's northern frontier by ordering the arrest of members of the Carabajal family and Gaspar Castaño de Sosa. An essential part of their strategy was conversion of the Chichimeca to Catholicism. The Franciscans sent priests to the frontier to aid in the pacification effort.[17]

The Purchase for Peace program worked to lower the rate of hostilities and the majority of the Chichimecas gradually became sedentary, Catholic, or nominally Catholic.

The Spanish policy evolved to make peace with the Chichimecas had four components: negotiation of peace agreements; welcoming, instead of forcing, conversion to Catholicism; encouraging native allies to settle the frontier to serve as examples and role models; and providing food, other commodities, and tools to potentially hostile natives. This established the pattern of Spanish policy for assimilating natives on their northern frontier. The principal components of the policy of purchase for peace would continue for nearly three centuries and would not be as successful, as later threats from hostile natives such as Apaches and Comanches would demonstrate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichimeca_War

[luc2112]

The Moors were even above medieval Europe culturally when they were in the Iberian penincula, influenced Spanish and Portuguese architecture and introduced colleges. The Aztecs did not know metal and horses were an isolated civilization.

[RogueState]

Why "if" ?

Isn't it already the case with Canary Islands ?

[luc2112]

Mors Spain:

[Daven]

Congratulations your people are truly heroes. Resistance of the Spanish and the Arab colonization. Modern day Morocco and Moroccans are native berbers.

Isn't he from Somalia or something?

[RMuller]

Isn't he from Somalia or something?

Hamilcar is from Morocco

[Hamilcar]

Why "if" ?

Isn't it already the case with Canary Islands ?

that's an insular case which is different because the demography is lower (so can easily be conquered and replaced) but also because guanches were isolated from the rest of North Africa, they were quite "primitive" technologically speaking and modern day canarians are not similar to north africans from a genetic point of view so it's not a good example

[Daven]

How did the Guanches look like? What North African group is the closest?

[Chaos One]

Why "if" ?

Isn't it already the case with Canary Islands ?

Genetically speaking that makes sense.