"The existence of Welsh is one of the great paradoxes of British history and culture". Discuss.

[Davystayn]

you go from chester towards Bala...a Welsh speaking town at the beginning of Snowdonia (which is only 40 miles away)...and it's a different world

no motorways...just an B road through the hills and countryside

Wales is isolated as fack compared to most of the UK...that's how the language survived

Yes totally right, most people forget, or don't even think about it, that the only accessible, lowland parts of Wales are the narrow strip along the north coast and the deeper strip along the south coast, that holds 3/4 of the population.

For the rest of it travelling west over the border the roads basically go straight up into a wild and misty land of deep valleys and high moors etc, like a mini Scotland.

The population of old counties like Radnorshire has stayed virtually the same for 100 years, it is an amazing rural place

[Graham]

I like how the cash machines give you a Welsh option, was briefly in Wales over a years back.

[Tooting Carmen]

[Davystayn]

From what I remember hearing is that when the English conquered Wales they lived in the castles and walled towns. The majority Welsh population kept to themselves. There was little rebelion like the Highlands or Ireland which might have helped it keep off the radar.

Yes the shape of Wales makes it easier to conquer - the Normans established a colony in effect in Pembrokeshire right early on - this was their launchpad then to attack Ireland.

Edward 1st knew that all he needed to do was establish more of these walled town colonies based around a castle, such as Conwy, Caernarfon, Harlech etc. He then encouraged people from England to settle in these towns, protected by the castle, easily supplied by the sea.

You don't need to bother trying to subjagate the mountains if you control these key points, he couldnt have done that in Scotland though, he was particularly harsh on Wales

[Ouistreham]

Did the Welsh language and culture survive despite the fact that Wales never had their own Church and (until recently) no Parliament of their own, of just because of that?

I ask the question because: in the late Middle-Ages Brittany was a fully independent duchy. The ducal Court encouraged arts and poetry and supported a thriving literary scene — all in French of course — and a political life quite apart of France. As a result the Breton language was quickly wiped out from the local nobility and urban elites, and merely survived on the countryside.

I think there are serious reasons to suppose that Wales would have been Anglified more swiftly and thoroughly if the country had enjoyed full autonomy for centuries.

[Davystayn]

Did the Welsh language and culture survive despite the fact that Wales never had their own Church and (until recently) no Parliament of their own, of just because of that?

I ask the question because: in the late Middle-Ages Brittany was a fully independent duchy. The ducal Court encouraged arts and poetry and supported a thriving literary scene — all in French of course — and a political life quite apart of France. As a result the Breton language was quickly wiped out from the local nobility and urban elites, and merely survived on the countryside.

I think there are serious reasons to suppose that Wales would have been Anglified more swiftly and thoroughly if the country had enjoyed full autonomy for centuries.

I think it was despite of the attempted subjugation, it created a more effective counter culture. Wales was able to hold out long enough until celtic culture became more accepted and fashionable.

Brittany is like Cornwall in that culture and language were much more overwhelmed, also a peninsula of a similar size.

If Britany or Cornwall had been larger and less accessible like Wales was/is situation might have been different, Breton and French bi lingual road signs, Breton speaking Universities and so on.

[Hialt]

Indeed it is. Well within the living memory of some people here, they were caned at school if the teacher heard them speaking Welsh and forced to wear a necklace saying 'Welsh Not'.

It's regrettable that the English have this unfortunate aspect to their past...A noted insensitivity to their neighboring Keltic people, and by extension, to non-whites in the Anglosphere. It really does make em look bad. I don't think it's a concocted idea, the English have something a bit angry about themselves sometimes. Maybe it's a bit of the "germanicness" expressing itself.

[NSXD60]

Yep, the schools do half the damage, the other is non native speakers moving into neighborhoods, the second finally reducing the number of Cajun French speakers who had largely remained isolated until about 50 years ago. Another 50 and all traces gone.

[Tooting Carmen]

Another great paradox - albeit of rather less importance - is how rugby matches between England and Wales are split almost 50/50 in terms of winning ratio, despite England enjoying vastly greater player numbers, wealth and resources than what Wales has.

[Dandelion]

It's regrettable that the English have this unfortunate aspect to their past...A noted insensitivity to their neighboring Keltic people, and by extension, to non-whites in the Anglosphere. It really does make em look bad. I don't think it's a concocted idea, the English have something a bit angry about themselves sometimes. Maybe it's a bit of the "germanicness" expressing itself.

All over Europe they treated culturo-linguistic minorities like that, though. An unfortunate side of history, but not exactly isolated.