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Thread: There is only one truth

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    Default There is only one truth

    Lets make this thread a honest and respectful debate about truth. The truth of today's Macedonian Slavic people.

    As a Christian, i am unable to lie. I seek truth. And so should every other professing Christian.

    Are Macedonian Slavs part of the Bulgarian ethnicity? Or at least, were they once part of it?

    Post information and evidence to the argument you are trying to make.

    Kuzman Shapkarev:
    In the beginning, when the form and colours of the Earth were ordained, fate apportioned to Macedonia a maze of mountains and a soil as red as blood.

    The history of this beautiful, tormented land does not encourage belief in a benevolent Creator, whose everlasting arms are outstretched in mercy to support even a falling sparrow. Rather it tempts one to give credence to the Bogomil heresy, which, conceived and nurtured in the Bulgarian lands, asserted that the world was, in fact, created by the Devil. And indeed, who but a fiend could have created this Aceldama? Who but the Devil himself could have fashioned so fair a charnal-house of hope and high endeavour?

    For Macedonia is as beautiful as her history is hideous... A southern land, born of the warm fertility of the Mediterranean and the rugged splendour of rebellious mountains... A land where eagles watch over the graves of heroes, and nightingales and cicadas sing serenades to the sun and moon... A land whose rivers, drunk with snow and thunderstorms, eternally seek the blue Aegean...

    A land bounteous with all that man could desire: flowers and golden grain, grapes and apricots, figs and pomegranates, apples and almonds, cotton and rice, quinces and sesame, mulberries and walnuts, tobacco and opium...

    A land of lakes, as bright as the eyes of angels, ringed with snowcapped mountains, and filled with fish fit for the gods of Olympus: Kastoria, Prespa, Doiran and celestial Ohrid... Ohrid, 'gilded in the setting sun and slumbering below hills, forest, snow, piled up and mingled with cloud midway in heaven,' [2] Ohrid, whose name in ancient Greek meant 'light', Ohrid, whose waters are as transparent as sunlight and where the very air sparkles like quick-silver...

    An historic land, full of ancestral memories... Of the forebears of Philip and Alexander, who built their first capital, like an eagle's eyrie, high above the crags and cataracts of Edessa... Of Spartacus, born and bred beside the Struma, and taught by the stern, proud peaks of Pirin that life without liberty is merely a living death... Of St Paul, who came to preach the word of God in response to the poignant appeal which has echoed down the ages: 'Come over into Macedonia
    Macedonians claim Shapkarev to be ethnic Macedonian. But we all know that any Macedonian today espousing his ideas would be condemned and labeled a Bugaroman.

    But then we also have some Macedonian historians who claim the context of the term "Bulgarian" was strictly socio-religious in nature. Dispelling the possibility that it was ethnic.

    Anyway, you get the drift............................................

  2. #2
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    Balkan nations never made any sense. My stance of Macedonia is the same, but I don't mind them as a country at all, they even embrace our guys in their football team like Alioski no racism, which is nice, plus I like Pandev alot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMaestro View Post
    Balkan nations never made any sense. My stance of Macedonia is the same, but I don't mind them as a country at all, they even embrace our guys in their football team like Alioski no racism, which is nice, plus I like Pandev alot.
    Yes. And Elif Elmas. They are the future of the team. It’s just that they need to reject Islam and come to the truth of Christ.

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    Until the end of the 18th century, most Balkan people and especially Southeastern Slavs (Bulgarians and Macedonians), didn't have strong ethnic conscious. We were all part of the Rum Millet and most of the people identified with their village.

    With the book of Paisii Hilendarski (born in Macedonia), the Bulgarian revival started and the Slavic speaking people from Ohrid till the Black sea recognized themselves as descendants of the empire described in the book of Paisii, as the Serbian and Greek ideas (which appeared earlier), were foreign. And this was quite natural as the people living in these territories lived together for hundred of years and shared same language and traditions and faith. Even during Rum Millet, the people of modern Macedonia and Bulgaria were interacting all the time. For example, we had huge Macedonian settlements in Thrace and vice versa.

    Having more knowledge on history, people started to develop not only ethnic sense, but also regional sense as they became familiar with the ancient history of their birthplaces. The people in Macedonia and Thrace had quite strong regional identities. Later on, the Bulgarian Exarchate was formed, including all territories with people who recognized themsleves in the history of Paisii. The Bulgarian state was created, it got independence and thousands of people started moving from Thrace and Macedonia to the newly formed state. Especially Macedonians were almost in every town and had huge influence in the development of Bulgaria until WW2. You can find thousands of poets, revolutionaires, actors, politicians, painters.

    Divided between Greece and Serbia, the Macedonians didn't stop being part of the Bulgarian cultural life and the development continued to be common. The struggle especially against the Serbian rule was always with the idea of unification with Bulgaria or independent state with Bulgarian majority.

    Our last chance for unification was during WW2, but it failed once again. After the war, the Macedonisation of the population had started and it was based on earlier ideas which noone supported. In oder to be distanced from Bulgarians, the Macedonian surnames were changed to - ski, ska, the new Macedonian alphabet was based on the Serbian one. Many people from the Macedonian intelligence were invaded to build the new Macedonian state within Yugoslavia. Most of them moved to Communist Bulgaria or were killed because they refused accept the rules of the new country. Those who accepted later on got high positions and prominence. It is estimated that up to 60% of the population of Macedonia was repressed after WW2.

    After the independence of Macedonia, the "deep country" there is still the same and doesn't allow good relations with Bulgaria, continuing the Yugoslav way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archduke View Post
    Until the end of the 18th century, most Balkan people and especially Southeastern Slavs (Bulgarians and Macedonians), didn't have strong ethnic conscious. We were all part of the Rum Millet and most of the people identified with their village.

    With the book of Paisii Hilendarski (born in Macedonia), the Bulgarian revival started and the Slavic speaking people from Ohrid till the Black sea recognized themselves as descendants of the empire described in the book of Paisii, as the Serbian and Greek ideas (which appeared earlier), were foreign. And this was quite natural as the people living in these territories lived together for hundred of years and shared same language and traditions and faith. Even during Rum Millet, the people of modern Macedonia and Bulgaria were interacting all the time. For example, we had huge Macedonian settlements in Thrace and vice versa.

    Having more knowledge on history, people started to develop not only ethnic sense, but also regional sense as they became familiar with the ancient history of their birthplaces. The people in Macedonia and Thrace had quite strong regional identities. Later on, the Bulgarian Exarchate was formed, including all territories with people who recognized themsleves in the history of Paisii. The Bulgarian state was created, it got independence and thousands of people started moving from Thrace and Macedonia to the newly formed state. Especially Macedonians were almost in every town and had huge influence in the development of Bulgaria until WW2. You can find thousands of poets, revolutionaires, actors, politicians, painters.

    Divided between Greece and Serbia, the Macedonians didn't stop being part of the Bulgarian cultural life and the development continued to be common. The struggle especially against the Serbian rule was always with the idea of unification with Bulgaria or independent state with Bulgarian majority.

    Our last chance for unification was during WW2, but it failed once again. After the war, the Macedonisation of the population had started and it was based on earlier ideas which noone supported. In oder to be distanced from Bulgarians, the Macedonian surnames were changed to - ski, ska, the new Macedonian alphabet was based on the Serbian one. Many people from the Macedonian intelligence were invaded to build the new Macedonian state within Yugoslavia. Most of them moved to Communist Bulgaria or were killed because they refused accept the rules of the new country. Those who accepted later on got high positions and prominence. It is estimated that up to 60% of the population of Macedonia was repressed after WW2.

    After the independence of Macedonia, the "deep country" there is still the same and doesn't allow good relations with Bulgaria, continuing the Yugoslav way.
    What's the reason it failed?

    Could it possibly be mis treatment on the part of the Bulgarian army/authorities?

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    I honestly believe that even after Paisii, most of the people in Macedonia and Bulgaria (esepcially in Macedonia) didn't care about ethnicity in the middle of the 20th century. Then, the population of both countries were mainly poor villagers who just wanted peaceful life and nothing more, which led to communistic ideas among them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archduke View Post
    I honestly believe that even after Paisii, most of the people in Macedonia and Bulgaria (esepcially in Macedonia) didn't care about ethnicity in the middle of the 20th century. Then, the population of both countries were mainly poor villagers who just wanted peaceful life and nothing more, which led to communistic ideas among them.
    Communism appealed to the lower working class as it deceitfully offered some type of rights to the people. It only made life worse for them in many ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vojnik View Post
    What's the reason it failed?

    Could it possibly be mis treatment on the part of the Bulgarian army/authorities?
    Big part of the Bulgarian administration in Macedonia was born in Macedonia. The agression of the Bulgarian army was against those who were Communists.

    But you have the same agression against those people in Bulgaria aswell. My great grandfather was sent to jail during WW2. He was a Communist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vojnik View Post
    Communism appealed to the lower working class as it deceitfully offered some type of rights to the people. It only made life worse for them in many ways.
    Exactly. Many people in our countries were such during WW2.

    Btw, after the repressions in Macedonia after WW2, the Macedonians had quite a good life. They finally had peace, Tito provided them a country only for them, they had the chance to work everywhere in the world, the standard in the country wasn't that bad aswell. At the same time, Bulgaria wasn't a prosperous country compared to Yugoslavia.

    And actually this is another reason why a new ethnic conscious was formed.

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    We didnt fight any Macedonians in 1904 we only fought Bulgarians. There were no Macedonians in Balkan wars only Greek regiments baring that name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
    We didnt fight any Macedonians in 1904 we only fought Bulgarians. There were no Macedonians in Balkan wars only Greek regiments baring that name.
    How many Greeks in Macedonia in 1904?

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