Classify Mari girl. Is she textbook Volgid?

[travv]

[Komintasavalta]

I tried searching for "wjatkid" on Google Books (https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=wjatkid). It returned a short excerpt from Lundman's book "Jordens människoraser och folkstammar", and by searching for text within the excerpt I found an old post on Skadi with a longer quote from Lundman's book (translated from Swedish) (https://forums.skadi.net/threads/740...-finska-folken):

At the Volga, the intrusions now absorbed the older population of predominantly Wjatkid race (and unknown, though certainly not "Altaic" language affiliation). The Volga Finns still surviving in these areas also show a predominantly Eastern Baltic-Wjatkid racial mix, although of course nowadays some Turkomongolian (Cumin) and Russian (of various races) elements have been added. - Some Finno-Ugric tribes, the Ugric Voguls and the Ostyaks have pushed or displaced far to the east, into Siberia (and Siberian poverty). However, they are now racially almost entirely of the extremely low-skulled "pre-Mongoloid" Obid race of these regions. - A third Ugric tribe, the Hungarians, on the other hand, became a steppe people and ended up in a completely different direction. Important for us here, is that the Hungarians in the areas where they are most unmixed, ss szekles in Transylvania, are still strongly blonde and Eastern Baltic. - (Usually the children are otherwise darker.)

It is conceivable that during the earlier part of the Volga period the connection with or division of the ancestors into the present Samoyeds was also effected, if it could not have taken place earlier. [...]

They may then have lived in the current Eastern Baltics and adjacent parts of Western Russia, as well as parts of Finland (southwestern Finland was already "Germanic" during the Stone Age) - if, as Finnish researchers like it, the Eastern Baltic race is roughly the Finnish the "urras" of the Ugric peoples and the so-called Comb Ceramic (Stone Age) culture closely associated with these peoples. Then, as the cultural conditions indicate, the Finno-Ugric people would soon be forced to the east and already at the end of the Stone Age at Oka and the central Volga would have a secondary distribution center. However, some tribes have probably remained in the old area in eastern Finland and at Pejpus. But the emphasis on the cultural and linguistic development of the tribal group as a whole had, so to speak, been shifted away towards the Volga.

So it seems like Lundman considered that the homeland of Finno-Ugric people was in the west, that Wjatkid represented a pre-Uralic type of the Volga-Ural region, and that the present-day Uralic peoples of the Volga-Ural region were mixes between Wjatkid and East Baltid.

Lundman proposed that Savolaxid represented the original Finno-Ugric type and that the Tavastid type formed when Savolaxids mixed with Balts or Germanics:

In the last millennium before the birth of Christ, the stream of Finno-Ugric tribes, which had hitherto gone mainly to the east, turned to the west. Some tribes then pushed across the Valdai back towards the Baltic coast, which was reached in present-day Estonia and Ingria. Below this, the Eastern Baltic blood was strengthened in them by merging with the tribal relatives who remained in the old ancestral home all the time. In the southwest of the Baltic Sea and at Dyna, there was contact with Latvian-Lithuanians (who at that time spread far into Russia, perhaps all the way to Smolensk), and probably already Germans. The westernmost, now Baltic-Finnish tribes mixed with these and thus the Tavastid subrace arose. However, it has since had millennia of self-development, which among others is shown by its slightly wider head in relation to the more eastern Baltic (and of course also the Indo-Europeans of that time). - As the actual Finno-Ugric primeval breed, on the other hand, you can consider my Savolaxid sub-race.

So I guess if dark short VURish girls are Volgid/Wjatkid then this is it.

[Komintasavalta]

The girl in this thread seems to have a fairly elongated face shape, but I don't know if that's supposed to be a characteristic of the Volgid/Wjatkid/Volga-Kama/sub-Uralid type or not.

Based on Karin Mark's measurements, Maris and Chuvashes had slightly higher facial index than Udmurts or Komis (https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/sta...logia-fizyczna). In the table below, facial index is based on the Soviet method of measuring facial height from the glabella and not the nasion. A formula for converting the facial index measurements to the Western method is to subtract 3.2 points.

(facial index;cephalic index;population)
91.7;79.9;Karatai Mordvin
91.4;81.1;Chuvash
91.4;78.9;Finland-Swede
91.0;80.5;Teryukhan Mordvin
91.0;79.9;Bashkir
90.7;82.6;Votic-Izhorian
90.7;80.4;Udmurt (Besserman)
90.5;81.1;Mari
90.5;79.4;Erzya
90.4;80.1;Finnish
90.4;78.6;Moksha
90.3;82.7;Izhorian
90.3;80.6;Russian (Middle Volga)
89.8;81.2;Komi-Permyak
89.8;80.0;Volga Tatar
89.8;80.7;Udmurt
89.4;81.5;Komi-Zyrian
89.1;82.7;Finnish (Ingrian)
89.1;81.1;Karelian
88.9;80.9;Estonian
88.7;79.9;Khanty
88.5;81.3;Vepsian
88.4;81.1;Livonian
87.6;80.4;Mansi
85.2;82.9;Finnish (Northeast)
84.3;82.2;Kola Saami
84.0;83.1;Saami

According to the measurements below published by Bunak, Maris had the lowest cephalic index in the Volga-Ural region, which might partially explain why Bunak considered Maris to not be sub-Lappid (https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/25749116.pdf?seq=12):



Here Bunak listed the average cephalic index as 80 for the Mittel-Wolga type and as 82 for the Wjatka-Kama type (https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/25749116.pdf?seq=36). However he actually listed Mittel-Wolga as having a higher facial index than Wjatka-Kama.

[Immanenz]

imo a bit more into Sub-Volgid direction, but i have a bit of a struggle to differeinciate between those types.

should this be a textbook Volgid?

https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/ima...ti/wyatkid.jpg

[travv]

Volgid is one of the most beautiful VURisch types to my eyes.

Dark hair + blue eyes + mongoloidish vibe is typical combination here.

Spoiler!

[Jana]

Another unter looking from Uralid stable. Looks Balkan though, not Uralid

[travv]

Looks Balkan though, not Uralid

Don't be so OWD she doesn't look Balkan or European at all. Pass only here.

Btw I know you're saying this so I can get butthurt. But I don't react anymore to your provocations.

[Seya]

Don't be so OWD she doesn't look Balkan or European at all. Pass only here.

Btw I know you're saying this so I can get butthurt. But I don't react anymore to your provocations.

It's true tho. 99% of these women you're posting look completely foreign to me but the OP woman looks Romanian as hell

[Jana]

Don't be so OWD she doesn't look Balkan or European at all. Pass only here.

Btw I know you're saying this so I can get butthurt. But I don't react anymore to your provocations.

She looks Balkan, I'm serious. And please, let's not call such WOG as white standard. She looks Turkish in comparison with me.

[travv]

She looks Balkan, I'm serious. And please, let's not call such WOG as white standard. She looks Turkish in comparison with me.

Again. You again use this word "white" in Uralisch thread.

Me and Komintasavalta never use this word in relation to Uralisch people. It's even insulting for us to compare Uralisch beauties with whites.

In Russian anthropology the Uralisch race is sometimes called as "the third race of Eurasia".

It's not my fault that they look "whiter" than some brown Europeans.