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Thread: Central-southern Italians are the Europeans of more Middle Eastern origin

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by manu15151513 View Post
    No, it is not at all. Also on various calculator such as Eurogenes K13 emerges. North Africans are essentially descended from hunter-gatherers present from well before the Neolithic in North Africa and from Neolithic farmers of Middle Eastern origin who have spread agriculture. To a very minor extent they are descended from Sub-Saharanians, Phoenicians and Arabs responsible for the spread of Islam. From what I have seen in general about 8-9% of the ancestors are Muslim Arab migrants of the Middle Ages and about 1-2% of the ancestors are Phoenicians, so about 10% of that Anatolian component probably comes from them, and therefore in general about 50% of their ancestors are directly attributable to the descendants of Middle Eastern farmers. Differently from the Italians, however, their Neolithic origins are much more archaic: the Italians owe about 75% of anatolian farmer to Middle Eastern farmers who arrived in the late Chalcolithic in Italy, mainly responsible for the very high caucasian-hunther-gathers heritage and today's j2a diffusion with ancestral origin of the Kura-Araxes culture, while the North Africans derive almost totally that 50% of Anatolian farmer directed by the very first Levantine Neolithic farmers uncontaminated by the migrations that will take place around the Chalcolithic that will enrich the Levant and southern Europe with j2 and Chg. In that image it is called "anatolia" because it is specifically targeted for Europeans and Neolithic migrations in Europe have essentially made their way to Anatolia, but in the North African case there is nothing Anatolian but Levantine.
    that's simply false and he's right : north africans are around 40-45% EEF certainly not 50-60% and this component came during the late neolithic from iberia not from the levant. Moreover natufian ancestry was already present in north africa way before the arab conquest (probably introduced by capsians)

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    Senior Member manu15151513's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilcar View Post
    that's simply false and he's right : north africans are around 40-45% EEF certainly not 50-60% and this component came during the late neolithic from iberia not from the levant. Moreover natufian ancestry was already present in north africa way before the arab conquest (probably introduced by capsians)
    Can you attach data to support what you say? That anatolian farmer does indeed certainly contain a lot of Natufian ancestors, and so the truly Neolithic ancestors may be minor. When I said ancestors originating from the Middle East I did not mean directly from the Middle East, it could also have passed through Iberia. Do you have sources?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fremdscham View Post
    he looks darker than calabrians
    you wish, Arab.
    Also dont post pics of others with no permission, faggot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manu15151513 View Post
    Can you attach data to support what you say? That anatolian farmer does indeed certainly contain a lot of Natufian ancestors, and so the truly Neolithic ancestors may be minor. When I said ancestors originating from the Middle East I did not mean directly from the Middle East, it could also have passed through Iberia. Do you have sources?
    By 3,000 BCE, a continuity in the Neolithic spread brought Mediterranean-like ancestry to the Maghreb, most likely from Iberia. Other archaeological remains, such as African elephant ivory and ostrich eggs found in Iberian sites, confirm the existence of contacts and exchange networks through both sides of the Gibraltar strait at this time. Our analyses strongly support that at least some of the European ancestry observed today in North Africa is related to prehistoric migrations, and local Berber populations were already admixed with Europeans before the Roman conquest. Furthermore, additional European/Iberian ancestry could have reached the Maghreb after KEB people; this scenario is supported by the presence of Iberian-like Bell-Beaker pottery in more recent stratigraphic layers of IAM and KEB caves. Future paleogenomic efforts in North Africa will further disentangle the complex history of migrations that forged the ancestry of the admixed populations we observe today.
    https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6774#sec-2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fremdscham View Post
    he looks darker than calabrians

    https://postimg.cc/qh5dWVxv
    My skin is 'whiter' than most Germans with the only possible exceptions the minority of Saxons in northern Germany.

    Germans are retarded they worship the dumb blonde hair blue eyed farmer blockhead warrior type as if that is he only kind of 'Germanic' :

    https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/...ic-europe.html






    Swarthy Germans :








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    Quote Originally Posted by Fremdscham View Post
    you're the terroni of europe
    We are not Italians.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesBond007 View Post
    My skin is 'whiter' than most Germans with the only possible exceptions the minority of Saxons in northern Germany.
    Dont rave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fremdscham View Post
    most iberians are on par with terroni, or even worse
    Cool story, Arab.

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    Veteran Member Ajeje Brazorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manu15151513 View Post
    About 63-69% of the ancestors of central-southern Italians before the Neolithic migrations were in the Middle East:
    Attachment 105441
    63-69% clearly seems to me an exaggeration, I reach about 21.4% but it depends on what is meant by "Middle East". These are my results:

    EEF,54 (originated in Anatolia)
    CHG,14 (originated in the Caucasus)
    GANJ_DAREH,11.4 (originated in Iran)
    NATUFIAN,10 (originated in Egypt/Levant)

    ANE,6.4 (originated in the Eurasian Steppe)
    WHG,4.2 (originated in Mainland Europe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    63-69% clearly seems to me an exaggeration, I reach about 21.4% but it depends on what is meant by "Middle East". These are my results:

    EEF,54 (originated in Anatolia)
    CHG,14 (originated in the Caucasus)
    GANJ_DAREH,11.4 (originated in Iran)
    NATUFIAN,10 (originated in Egypt/Levant)

    ANE,6.4 (originated in the Eurasian Steppe)
    WHG,4.2 (originated in Mainland Europe)
    Overall it seems Italians have more ME ancestry than Moroccans. Here my results :

    Target: Hamilcar_scaled
    Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
    46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
    12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    6.6 Yoruba
    5.0 Levant_Natufian
    1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    1.4 WHG

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    Veteran Member Ajeje Brazorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilcar View Post
    Overall it seems Italians have more ME ancestry than Moroccans. Here my results :

    Target: Hamilcar_scaled
    Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
    46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
    27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
    12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
    6.6 Yoruba
    5.0 Levant_Natufian
    1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
    1.4 WHG
    This is roughly the case, but it also depends on which sample is used for the Middle East. If you use Natufan, there is a shorter distance with the Moroccans because it is attracted to Taforalt, while if you use PPNB there is a shorter distance with the Italians because it is more attracted to EEF.

    Code:
    Distance to:	Levant_Natufian
    0.16338678	Hamilcar_scaled
    0.21396709	Ajeje_Brazorf_scaled
    
    Distance to:	Levant_PPNB
    0.14393595	Ajeje_Brazorf_scaled
    0.15846965	Hamilcar_scaled
    This however is you using my calculator:

    EEF,43.8
    TAFORALT,25.8
    GANJ_DAREH,7.6
    WEST_AFRICA,6.2
    LEVANT,6
    ANE,4.4
    WHG,3.6
    CHG,2
    BIAKA,0.6

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