Joe Biden and Ireland

[Creoda]

The Norman claims sound more like something a few Americans would say in a forum, that's hardly a mainstream view. I'm impressed if Americans know much about Normans or if they are familiar with the Battle of Hastings, which probably doesn't say much for us.

Maybe so, I wasn't meaning the majority of Americans had a fetish for Norman ancestry. Of course most people don't know or care about any of this stuff.

[Mortimer]

Talking about Ireland or the UK. I just joined a UK forum... looks like a interesting forum. https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho....php?t=6894488

[Graham]

Maybe so, I wasn't meaning the majority of Americans had a fetish for Norman ancestry. Of course most people don't know or care about any of this stuff.

England could easily have been Normanland. The English underplay their French links because the two nations don't get on.

The whole Foundation of England was built from Anglo-Norman times.

[Creoda]

England could easily have been Normanland. The English underplay their French links because the two nations don't get on.

The whole Foundation of England was built from Anglo-Norman times.

OK, but the Norman ancestry of average people is in all probability very low. Can't imagine why it would have been called Normanland, it was already a united Kingdom of England.

[Graham]

OK, but the Norman ancestry of average people is in all probability very low. Can't imagine why it would have been called Normanland, it was already a united Kingdom of England.

The English Kings were full on Normans and the Anglo Saxons rulers were pushed out.

The overall majority of fortifications and abbeys were built by Norman nobles and bishops, those nobles were Englands hierarchy until recently. The English coat of arms, St George Cross(adopted by Richard the Lionheart, a Norman) and Magna Carta followed. The English language was changed enough for Middle English and Early English to look like two diffferent languages.

[Creoda]

The English Kings were full on Normans and the Anglo Saxons rulers were pushed out.

The overall majority of fortifications and abbeys were built by Norman nobles and bishops, those nobles were Englands hierarchy until recently. The English coat of arms, St George Cross(adopted by Richard the Lionheart, a Norman) and Magna Carta followed. The English language was changed enough for Middle English and Early English to look like two diffferent languages.

William the Conqueror and all successive Kings assumed the title of King of England, as a continuation of the state/kingdom that already existed. The Domesday Book in 1086 was only possible because England was already a relatively organised and centralised state. So it wasn't going to ever be called Normanland, it was a case of legitimacy, William considered himself rightful King of the English before he'd ever set foot there.

English state ≠ English people either, as we know English wasn't even an official language until the 14th-15th century, but it was always the language of the common folk, who never had much genetic influence from Normans (subject of my original post).

[Rethel]

Why do you claim it?

Becasue he is from Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire in East Anglia.

to the whole ancestry

Forefathers are whole ancestry.

make up and identity.

Welcome to the schizophrenic world - where in every generetion idnetity must be calculated, and guy's children and not guy's children even if they are.

Is Franz Vranitzky former Austrian chancellor Austrian or Slavic? Vranitzky is a slavic surname.

Idk, many Germans have slavic names and vice versa.

[Rethel]

What would you say about the Pearse brothers Willie and Patrick? They are Irish patriots and heros who started the 1916 Rebellion and were executed by the British for it. They had an Irish mother and an English father.

The same. The fact, that they chose to fight for Ireland, doesn't chnage who they are.
And always has to be destincted an inheritable identity (which is not changeable) from
the residentional (which can change). Biden is not Irish in both meanings.

Surnames and ydna lines are not the be-all of a person's identity as you can see above with the Pearse brothers. Your view is very much an unusual one and would be viewed as very eccentric by the vast majority of people.

So 99% of history was excentiric.

It is btw very symptomatic, that people who either don't care or are very ignorant about history, tradition, religion, law, and customs, and who base their only true judgment only on their own imagination corrupted by other internet ignorants, claim to be normal and to know better, than someone who speaks with support of laws, traditions, customs, religions, history, literature aso... Interesting, isn't it?

Your views don't change the fact that Joe Biden identifies with his Irish ancestry.

Also would not change, if he would identify as a pygmy woman.
He can claim whatever he want's, but it will not changed his provenance.

A Polish person can like Irish culture but isn't going to claim he is Irish obviously. That is a different case with Joe Biden who has 62.5% Irish ancestry.

He has just some stronger reason to be interested, but the situation is the same.

[Rethel]

OK, but the Norman ancestry of average people is in all probability very low. Can't imagine why it would have been called Normanland, it was already a united Kingdom of England.

Because the topest people were Normands, and they were creators and rulers of the state. And to some quite high degree still are.

[Graham]

Rethel you are sort of going down the Primogeniture side of things when a clan is a tribe rather than just it's cheiftan and father to son.

Edit: but I do get about History and all that being driving by it.