Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

[Sterling Archer]

LAMO, do you know what Khoy (Xoy) means? It means 'salt' in Kurdish. Turkic/Azeri name for salt is 'duz' or 'tuz', something very different than Khoy (Xoy).

Of course is Khoy a Kurdish city. The name of the city is of a Kurdic origin

I think we should stop this shit show. This is no place to argue who's city it is.

[Leto]

Two Dagestanis (they share about 351 cM)

Gedrosia 26.44 Pct
Siberian 2.9 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 2.81 Pct
North_European 27.35 Pct
South_Asian 1 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.53 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 36.97 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Gedrosia 23.5 Pct
Siberian 2.28 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 5.05 Pct
North_European 27.24 Pct
South_Asian 1.37 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.65 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 37.91 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Dagestan as the rest of the North Caucasus is not a very safe place and the people are notorious for higher than average crime rates and general asocial behavior in Russian cities but after I learned more about their genetics it's now my favorite part of the Caucasus (maybe after Orthodox Georgia).

[Guti]

Few ydna evidence I'm aware doesn't support the fact that the Tats are assimilated Talysh. All paternal linages belonged to the local, caucasian branches unlike the Talysh.
Their language is not in the same branch as Talysh either. Don't know how dialects are defined but it is not mutually intelligible with Persian either. I say this as a person who is from an are adjecent to Tats and also have tat relatives.

Maybe I could be wrong but I thought that Tat people came originally from Gilan and settled in the Caucasus during the Sassanid (Khosrow I) era. This is what their (Caucasus Tats) origin story is telling us.


But according to iranicaonline.org, Tats in the Caucasus are different from Tati in Iran. So Iranian Tats are more related to Talysh and other Northwestern Iranic people, while Tats in Azer are Persianized people.

Tātī and Ṭālešī (Talyshi) together make up the larger dialect chains which together make up the larger Tatic family (not to be confused with Tat-Persian spoken in pockets north of the Baku area). Among these, the two Tātī pockets in Gīlān, Kalāsī and Kabataʾī, have their closest relatives in Upper Tārom in Zanjān province.

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/gilan-x

[Sterling Archer]

Maybe I could be wrong but I thought that Tat people came originally from Gilan and settled in the Caucasus during the Sassanid (Khosrow I) era. This is what their (Caucasus Tats) origin story is telling us.


But according to iranicaonline.org, Tats in the Caucasus are different from Tati in Iran. So Iranian Tats are more related to Talysh and other Northwestern Iranic people, while Tats in Azer are Persianized people.

Tātī and Ṭālešī (Talyshi) together make up the larger dialect chains which together make up the larger Tatic family (not to be confused with Tat-Persian spoken in pockets north of the Baku area). Among these, the two Tātī pockets in Gīlān, Kalāsī and Kabataʾī, have their closest relatives in Upper Tārom in Zanjān province.

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/gilan-x

Yes, you are mistaking them. Iranian Tats aren't the same as the Caucasian ones. Even their languages belong to different branches.

[Kyp]

Maybe I could be wrong but I thought that Tat people came originally from Gilan and settled in the Caucasus during the Sassanid (Khosrow I) era. This is what their (Caucasus Tats) origin story is telling us.


But according to iranicaonline.org, Tats in the Caucasus are different from Tati in Iran. So Iranian Tats are more related to Talysh and other Northwestern Iranic people, while Tats in Azer are Persianized people.

Tātī and Ṭālešī (Talyshi) together make up the larger dialect chains which together make up the larger Tatic family (not to be confused with Tat-Persian spoken in pockets north of the Baku area). Among these, the two Tātī pockets in Gīlān, Kalāsī and Kabataʾī, have their closest relatives in Upper Tārom in Zanjān province.

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/gilan-x

Because "Tat" is an exonym turks in the region used to refer to (muslim)-settled people. Some nomadic turks even call non-nomadic turks "tat". Like the Shahsevan they refer to everyone else as Tat.

Another example would be the region of Miandoab where turkic speakers are usually named in two groups: "Afshar" and "Tat"

[Guti]

Yamnaya people. There were more Caucaso-Iranic (Gedrosia) than Caucaso-Anatolian (Caucasus).




https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/yamna_culture.shtml

[orhanaa]

Ersari Turkmen result from Turkmenistan

Gedrosian: 15.60
Siberian: 15.97
Northwest_African: -
Southeast_Asian: 2.17
Atlantic_Med: 5.24
North_European: 18.47
South_Asian: 3.02
East_African: -
Southwest_Asian: 4.26
East_Asian: 17.81
Caucasian: 17.48
Sub_Saharan: -

[Leto]

Ersari Turkmen result from Turkmenistan

Gedrosian: 15.60
Siberian: 15.97
Northwest_African: -
Southeast_Asian: 2.17
Atlantic_Med: 5.24
North_European: 18.47
South_Asian: 3.02
East_African: -
Southwest_Asian: 4.26
East_Asian: 17.81
Caucasian: 17.48
Sub_Saharan: -

This one is very interesting. I wonder if I have seen it before.

EDIT:

These are Turkmens (they match old academic Turkmen kits)

Two close relatives

Gedrosia 15.6 Pct
Siberian 15.97 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 2.17 Pct
Atlantic_Med 5.24 Pct
North_European 18.47 Pct
South_Asian 3.02 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.26 Pct
East_Asian 17.81 Pct
Caucasus 17.48 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Gedrosia 17.58 Pct
Siberian 15.69 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 1.47 Pct
Atlantic_Med 5.95 Pct
North_European 16.92 Pct
South_Asian 4.42 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.52 Pct
East_Asian 17.13 Pct
Caucasus 16.26 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.06 Pct


Gedrosia 17.85 Pct
Siberian 17 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 1.95 Pct
Atlantic_Med 5.61 Pct
North_European 13.83 Pct
South_Asian 5.39 Pct
East_African 0.96 Pct
Southwest_Asian 5.13 Pct
East_Asian 16.56 Pct
Caucasus 15.64 Pct
Sub_Saharan 0.07 Pct

Gedrosia 12.61 Pct
Siberian 18.16 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 3.45 Pct
Atlantic_Med 5.67 Pct
North_European 13.3 Pct
South_Asian 2.81 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.4 Pct
East_Asian 18.21 Pct
Caucasus 21.39 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

[Kyp]

Another Tat from the Republic of Azerbaijan:

Gedrosian: 25.44
Siberian: 0.98
Northwest_African: 0.00
Southeast_Asian: 0.89
Atlantic_Med: 7.12
North_European: 14.18
South_Asian 2.49
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 10.74
East_Asian: 2.41
Caucasian: 35.75
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Tat_Azerbaijan5
5.16389388 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
6.10367103 Tat_Azerbaijan
6.56080788 Azerbaijani_North
6.81441120 Kurd_Kordestan
6.96258573 Iranian_Zoroastrian
7.57927437 Iranian_Isfahan
7.69836346 Azerbaijani_Tabriz
7.82549040 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.96287009 Azerbaijani_Republic
8.31143790 Iranian_Khorasan
8.39946427 Iranian_Central
8.58390937 Kurd_Kermanshah
8.65360041 Dersim
9.08047906 Azerbaijani_Northwest
9.29214184 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.35036363 Yazidi_Kurd
9.41362842 Azerbaijani_Turkey
9.52385951 Kurd_Sorani
9.65795009 Talysh_Azerbaijan
9.77493734 Iranian_Kerman
9.96450701 Iranian_Fars
9.99496873 Iranian_Kerman
10.74203891 Lezgin
11.04432433 Turk_Southeast
11.20218729 Kumyk



New average including this result:

Tat_Azerbaijan,23.67,2.25,0.28,0.45,6.59,13.38,2.95,0.09,10.31,1.08,38.96,0

[Leto]

@Kyp, you can remove "Dersim" and reinstate "Zaza/Kurd_Turkey", it's in my version. That controversy is a non-issue, who cares anyway.