Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

[Altaylı]

Weird how this guy has decent Gedrosia but no South Asian and barely any Caucasus. Normally they have similar or equal to at least one of those components depending on geographic (south asian in the east and Caucasus to the west)

I agree He has very interesting autosomal also DA89 Gokturk is same too he has 23 pct gedrosia 0 caucasus 0 south asian

[Mejgusu]

Weird how this guy has decent Gedrosia but no South Asian and barely any Caucasus. Normally they have similar or equal to at least one of those components depending on geographic (south asian in the east and Caucasus to the west)

I am still not sure whether early Turkics really had any Caucasus, i doubt that everything above 10% came from Turkic stock. On the other hand Gedrosia was present in high numbers, but no South Asian nor Atl_Med. Both components are definitely non-Turkic influences(Iranic most probably). I found the Botai sample which i posted many months ago, it hadn’t any Caucasus, but 20% Gedrosia(Botai culture was either Iranic, Ugric or Altaic(Turkic), but it seems they were Ugric).

[Fedora]

I am still not sure whether early Turkics really had any Caucasus, i doubt that everything above 10% came from Turkic stock. On the other hand Gedrosia was present in high numbers, but no South Asian nor Atl_Med. Both components are definitely non-Turkic influences(Iranic most probably). I found the Botai sample which i posted many months ago, it hadn’t any Caucasus, but 20% Gedrosia(Botai culture was either Iranic, Ugric or Altaic(Turkic), but it seems they were Ugric).

Botai culture predates turkic or iranic. They don't seem to have any descend. They scored like 40% NOrth Euro 20% Gedrosia rest mogloid or something like this. They were the first culture to domesticate Horses according to current research, and the direct descend of those horses are the mongolian wild horses of today. The Botai culture 5000 years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botai_culture

[Dr_Maul]

I am still not sure whether early Turkics really had any Caucasus, i doubt that everything above 10% came from Turkic stock. On the other hand Gedrosia was present in high numbers, but no South Asian nor Atl_Med. Both components are definitely non-Turkic influences(Iranic most probably). I found the Botai sample which i posted many months ago, it hadn’t any Caucasus, but 20% Gedrosia(Botai culture was either Iranic, Ugric or Altaic(Turkic), but it seems they were Ugric).

But the question is how can it be pure Gedrosia in Turkics when Iran_N as a standalone population was already extinct for thousands of years by the time of those first turks. BMAC at MOST was 75% Gedrosia (most being 40-60), and non EHG part of Yamnaya was mixed CHG with Iran N as well. So how can those Turks have pure Gedrosia without CHG/South Asia when such a population was extinct for so long. Therefore its probably from some more ancient source where perhaps Iran_N mixed with EHG/N European or even Mongoloid (or all 3)

[Mejgusu]

Botai culture predates turkic or iranic. They don't seem to have any descend. They scored like 40% NOrth Euro 20% Gedrosia rest mogloid or something like this. They were the first culture to domesticate Horses according to current research, and the direct descend of those horses are the mongolian wild horses of today.

I just saw one sample, and it was neither Turkic nor Iranic(genetically!). If we get more samples we could say for certain what they were. You don’t need to explain me anything btw.

Distance to: Botai
16.45653670 Udmurt
18.34515740 Mari
20.76600587 Besermyan_Udmurtia
21.90489900 Chuvash
23.58355359 Tatar_Zabolotniye
24.91896667 Komi
25.03601805 Bashkir_North
25.32758180 Bashkir_Central
28.05387139 Bashkir_South
28.40052640 Tatar_Kazan
30.43240050 Tatar_Siberia
30.92036384 Tatar_Mishar
32.62162626 Russian_Ural
33.12807269 Russian_Arkhangelsk
35.20357794 Altaian_Chelkan
35.68134246 Veps
35.95610101 Mordovian
36.17558984 Shor
36.50976582 Lipka_Tatar
36.54271884 Russian_Kostroma
37.13271469 Tubalar
37.40698732 North_Russian
37.50848037 Karelian
38.11423225 Finnish_East
38.90310527 Russian_Ryazan

Target: Botai
Distance: 15.3637% / 15.36373770 | ADC: 0.25x RC
73.9 Udmurt
23.0 Tatar_Zabolotniye
2.3 Meena
0.8 Kalash

But the question is how can it be pure Gedrosia in Turkics when Iran_N as a standalone population was already extinct for thousands of years by the time of those first turks. BMAC at MOST was 75% Gedrosia (most being 40-60), and non EHG part of Yamnaya was mixed CHG with Iran N as well. So how can those Turks have pure Gedrosia without CHG/South Asia when such a population was extinct for so long. Therefore its probably from some more ancient source where perhaps Iran_N mixed with EHG/N European or even Mongoloid (or all 3)

This Botai sample also had a lot, wasn’t Gedrosia also present among every pre-Turkic steppe people like Scythians? Besides of that i can’t explain your points, they are interesting information but unfortunately i don’t have enough knowledge about that. Maybe Leto or someone else has ancient samples which can answer your questions?

[Altaylı]

Aren't Botai people R1b and first horse riders?
Were they ugric?

[Dr_Maul]

This Botai sample also had a lot, wasn’t Gedrosia also present among every pre-Turkic steppe people like Scythians? Besides of that i can’t explain your points, they are interesting information but unfortunately i don’t have enough knowledge about that. Maybe Leto or someone else has ancient samples which can answer your questions?

Yes Gedrosia is generally widespread (part due to Yamnaya other part due to BMAC mixing/assimilation) in however it almost always has CHG included in the west and some Indus valley / south asian in the east. Thats why im confused how that Kimak has basically none of both those

Aren't Botai people R1b and first horse riders?
Were they ugric?

I don't know anything about Botai History or language to be honest. But those we have on Vahaduo are Y-tested, yes

BOT14:
R1b1a1a1a*
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y14051*/

BOT15:
C1b2a1
https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-M208/

The other 2 which were tested were both Women, with haplogroup Z1a

[Leto]

Georgian

Gedrosia 17.96 Pct
Siberian 0.53 Pct
Northwest_African 0.54 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 3.14 Pct
North_European 11.77 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 5.44 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 59.49 Pct
Sub_Saharan 1.13 Pct

Distance to: nodo
2.46391964 Georgian_Gurian
3.16644912 Georgian_Svan
3.39378844 Georgian_Mingrelian
4.64486814 Abkhazian
5.00860260 Georgian_Imereti
6.31241634 Georgian
8.32234342 Georgian_Turkey
9.71459726 Turk_Ahiska
9.74066220 Georgian_Adjara
9.95668620 Ossetian_South

Target: nodo
Distance: 1.8613% / 1.86128411
67.1 Georgian_Mingrelian
19.8 Georgian_Svan
10.3 Georgian_Gurian
2.0 Lithuanian
0.8 Mandenka

Distance to: nodo
2.14304120 96.80% Georgian_Mingrelian + 3.20% Latvian
2.17685902 3.00% Finnish_East + 97.00% Georgian_Mingrelian
2.17813284 96.80% Georgian_Mingrelian + 3.20% Lithuanian
2.19114896 96.80% Georgian_Mingrelian + 3.20% Veps
2.19454857 96.60% Georgian_Mingrelian + 3.40% Russian_Arkhangelsk

[Kaspias]

Interesting stuff

[Leto]

...

Hi, I just wanted to tell you that Euro K13 is now quite good for you

Distance to: Buusra(Turkish_Avar)
5.64869897 Avar
5.93771842 Tabassaran
6.73479770 Chechen
6.82267543 Lak
7.23203982 Dargin
8.54088403 Lezgin
10.23274645 Ingush
10.27228310 Kabardin
11.70179046 North_Ossetian
12.00209982 Yagnobi

Distance to: Buusra(Turkish_Avar)
2.27656768 8.60% Italian_Sardinia + 91.40% Lak
2.54679828 93.00% Avar + 7.00% Italian_Sardinia
2.67698680 91.00% Dargin + 9.00% Italian_Sardinia
3.26781627 10.60% France_Corsica + 89.40% Lak
3.39161627 90.40% Dargin + 9.60% Moroccan
3.45658605 9.80% Algerian + 90.20% Dargin
3.46011756 11.40% Italian_Lazio + 88.60% Lak
3.46403931 92.00% Avar + 8.00% France_Corsica
3.47087347 90.40% Lak + 9.60% Spanish_Andalucia
3.48522366 90.40% Dargin + 9.60% Mozabite_Berber

Target: Buusra(Turkish_Avar)
Distance: 1.2925% / 1.29246934 | ADC: 0.25x RC
59.4 Dargin
31.3 Kabardin
5.0 French_Basque
3.9 Kalash
0.4 North_Amerindian

Target: Buusra(Turkish_Avar)
Distance: 2.1279% / 2.12785066 | ADC: 0.5x RC
70.8 Avar
24.5 Kabardin
4.7 French_Basque

But it still shows some elevated West Mediterranean (French_Basque).