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^^^^Interesting how Armenians score higher SW Asian than their neighbours.
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And it’s not because somehow Arabs colonized the Caspian or mixed with the locals there. The Armenian Levantine, Iranian farmer, and Anatolian ancestors in the Caucasus simply stayed more sheltered than the other inhabitants of the Caspian and Kurdistan and Turkey who were more affected than Armenians by the waves of Central Asian Aryan Iranians and Turco-Mongols. Thus they have less (not none) Central Asian ancestors than Persians, Kurds, and Turks and therefore retained more of their ancient Levantine, Iranian farmer and Anatolian ancestry. That’s the reason they have less northern and eastern ancestry than Kurds from that regionOriginally Posted by Stearsolina
With formal stats even Armenians do show some Central Asian admixture compared to the Chalcolithic inhabitants of the Caspian area. You can see a little of it also in a calculator that doesn’t have a “Caucausus “ component
Muzh ba staso la tyaro tsakha ra wubaasu
[IMG][/IMG]
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Zoro do you know anything about Chechen-Dagestani origin kurdish tribes from Muş/Turkey? Their tribe names are "Çeçen" and "Lezgi", they are supposed to be the descendents of immigrants that exiled to Turkey after Russo-Circassian war and settled among Kurds, then they got assimilated, now they are speaking Kurdish. Do you have any dna results from that tribe??
I have a result she has Turkish name and surname, she has kurdish matches, she speaks kurdish but She gets modelled like %60-65 Kurdish + %35-40 Dagestani/Chechen. I think she might be from that tribe, i have her gedmatch kit number and some information about her. If you are interested i can send you.
This is how she gets modelled on k12b:
Target: Emine
Distance: 1.3639% / 1.36389434 | ADC: 0.25x RC
44.9 Kurd_Adygea
34.9 Kumyk
8.0 Lezgin
6.6 Kuwait2
5.6 Turkmen_TM
Target: Emine
Distance: 1.3268% / 1.32675148 | ADC: 0.25x RC
81.6 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
11.3 Iranian
7.1 Kuwait2
Some information about them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_Kurds
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The first time I heard the name "Lezgin" is when I was a kid and a Kurdish cousin of mine was named "Lezgin". At that time I didn't know there was even people named Lezgin. So when I grew up and got into genetics I found out there are people called Lezgin and Chechen.
So I asked my parents why my cousin was named Lezgin. They said they didn't know but it's just a name. They didn't know there was even a group of people called Lezgin
Back to your question. No I didn't know about Chechen-Dagestani origin kurdish tribes from Muş/Turkey with tribe names "Çeçen" and "Lezgi" but I have always been curious about why some Kurds name their kids Lezgin and why in IBS gene to gene comparison why Lezgin show up 1st in Kurmanji Kurds and visa versa.
For example, I am curious why Iraqi Kurds show up 1st for Lezgins in this IBS list and why Armenians and Fars Iranians are so much lower in the list. This list was done using about 350,000 SNPs. Not only that, but if you check Pi-Hat column (based on IBD) Iraqi Kurds by far have the largest IBD with Lezgin.
IBS with LEZGIN 350k SNPs IBS PI_HAT Kurd-Iraq-WGS
0.85119 0.08 Adygei 0.84888 0.04 Russia_Abkhasian 0.84796 0.00 Chechen 0.84775 0.00 Ossetian-North 0.84755 0.00 Armenian 0.84738
0.00 Georgian 0.84735 0.00 Czech 0.84697 0.00 Greek 0.84693 0.00 Bulgarian 0.84670 0.00 Orcadian 0.84653 0.00 Icelandic 0.84646 0.00 Iranian-Fars 0.84640
0.00 Turkish-Kayseri 0.84633 0.00 Spanish 0.84624 0.00 Basque 0.84620 0.00 Norwegian 0.84620 0.00 Polish 0.84618 0.00 Hungarian 0.84609 0.00 Finnish 0.84607 0.00 Russian 0.84605 0.00 Estonian 0.84593 0.00 English 0.84593 0.00 Albanian.DG 0.84578 0.00 Tuscan 0.84575 0.00 French 0.84569 0.00 Tajik 0.84517 0.00 Jew_Iraqi 0.84504 0.00 Pathan 0.84498 0.00 Sardinian 0.84459 0.00 Kalash 0.84415 0.00 Druze 0.84411 0.00 Saami 0.84405 0.00 Sindhi 0.84390 0.00 Burusho 0.84390 0.00 Tlingit 0.84354 0.00 Brahui 0.84282 0.00 Brahmin 0.84259 0.00 Makrani 0.84235 0.00 Balochi 0.84210 0.00 Jew_Yemenite 0.84207 0.00 Uyghur 0.84203 0.00 Mansi 0.84178 0.00 Hazara 0.84097 0.00 Bengali 0.84096 0.00 Punjabi 0.84096 0.00 Samaritan 0.84095 0.00 BedouinB 0.84069 0.00 Tubalar 0.84003 0.00 Kyrgyz_Kyrgyzstan 0.84001 0.00 Jordanian 0.83997 0.00 Kapu 0.83959 0.00 Madiga 0.83958 0.00 Mala 0.83910 0.00 Relli 0.83862 0.00 Irula 0.83796 0.00 Mexico_Zapotec.DG 0.83677 0.00 Mixtec 0.83636 0.00 Even 0.83605 0.00 Quechua 0.83587 0.00 Yakut 0.83566 0.00 Burmese 0.83554 0.00 Mongola 0.83540 0.00 Eskimo_Sireniki.DG 0.83525 0.00 Mayan 0.83516 0.00 Tu 0.83506 0.00 Hezhen 0.83501 0.00 Daur 0.83497 0.00 Pima 0.83484 0.00 Xibo 0.83484 0.00 Mixe 0.83472 0.00 Khonda_Dora 0.83442 0.00 Oroqen 0.83435 0.00 Japanese 0.83428 0.00 Korean 0.83419 0.00 Ulchi 0.83418 0.00 Han 0.83414 0.00 Itelmen 0.83399 0.00 Miao 0.83396 0.00 Thai 0.83394 0.00 She 0.83380 0.00 Cambodian 0.83376 0.00 Naxi 0.83351 0.00 Piapoco 0.83349 0.00 Kinh 0.83345 0.00 Tujia 0.83332 0.00 Surui 0.83320 0.00 YANA_UP_WGS 0.83319 0.00 Yi 0.83314 0.00 Kusunda 0.83305 0.00 Dai 0.83304 0.00 China_Lahu 0.83295 0.00 Karitiana 0.83288 0.00 Ami.DG 0.83246 0.00 Dusun 0.83169 0.00 Igorot 0.83165 0.00 Saharawi 0.83035 0.00 Mozabite 0.82886 0.00 Bougainville 0.82646 0.00 Papuan 0.82391 0.00 Somali 0.80977 0.00 Masai 0.80070 0.00 BantuKenya 0.78477 0.00 Luo 0.78437 0.00 Luhya 0.78351 0.00 Gambian 0.78343 0.00 Mandenka 0.78278 0.00 Mende 0.78164 0.00 Esan 0.78116 0.00 Yoruba 0.78052 0.00 Biaka 0.77614 0.00 Mbuti 0.77329 0.00 Ju_hoan_North 0.76765 0.00 Khomani_San 0.76762 0.00
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Which command did you use to run IBS as well as those IBD scores? Couldn't see the tutorial under admixtools.
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I don't know about IBS but If we exclude Adyghe tribes I'd say there are about 1300-1400 Kurdish families of Dagestani and Chechen origin living in iraq and most of them dont even know their origins they are fully assimilated.The first time I heard the name "Lezgin" is when I was a kid and a Kurdish cousin of mine was named "Lezgin". At that time I didn't know there was even people named Lezgin. So when I grew up and got into genetics I found out there are people called Lezgin and Chechen.
So I asked my parents why my cousin was named Lezgin. They said they didn't know but it's just a name. They didn't know there was even a group of people called Lezgin
Back to your question. No I didn't know about Chechen-Dagestani origin kurdish tribes from Muş/Turkey with tribe names "Çeçen" and "Lezgi" but I have always been curious about why some Kurds name their kids Lezgin and why in IBS gene to gene comparison why Lezgin show up 1st in Kurmanji Kurds and visa versa.
For example, I am curious why Iraqi Kurds show up 1st for Lezgins in this IBS list and why Armenians and Fars Iranians are so much lower in the list. This list was done using about 350,000 SNPs. Not only that, but if you check Pi-Hat column (based on IBD) Iraqi Kurds by far have the largest IBD with Lezgin.
"Within the course of time, it is observed that
families lost their ethnical and cultural characteristics, and adopted common customs
and traditions, as well as common languages (Kurdish and Arabic). Therefore, those
Chechens do not remember anything but
their lost origins regarding their background."
If anyone is interested I will leave a link of an article about it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160305..._134ingtum.pdf
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Actually I ran it using Plink. Here are the steps:
1- Make 2 column ( POP ID) text file of the good samples you want to use in the run, C.txt: ..../plink --bfile MASTER9 --keep C.txt --make-bed --out IBS
2- Use only SNPs overlapping in all samples: /plink --bfile IBS --geno 0.001 --make-bed --out IBS1
3- Calculate IBS using "genome" flag : /plink --bfile IBS1 --genome
4- Your results will be in folder plink.genome
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Very interesting. Most of those areas are Arabs except for Dohuk, Sulemani, Hawler (Arbil) and Kirkuk but that still wouldn't explain why my cousin's name is Lezgin.I don't know about IBS but If we exclude Adyghe tribes I'd say there are about 1300-1400 Kurdish families of Dagestani and Chechen origin living in iraq and most of them dont even know their origins they are fully assimilated.
"Within the course of time, it is observed that
families lost their ethnical and cultural characteristics, and adopted common customs
and traditions, as well as common languages (Kurdish and Arabic). Therefore, those
Chechens do not remember anything but
their lost origins regarding their background."
If anyone is interested I will leave a link of an article about it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160305..._134ingtum.pdf
Edit: I just noticed that Chechens are no 6 on my IBS list for Iraqi Kurds posted at
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ome-here/page3
Just read your linked article about Chechen Kurds. I didn’t know about them
Last edited by Zoro; 03-11-2021 at 01:05 PM.
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Most of them dont know about their origins neither
"Circassians in Iraq were settled in Diyala, Baghdad, Mosul, Anbar (Fallujah), and Kirkuk
in particular. In addition, families who voluntarily migrated from North and South Dagestan in a short while before and after the forced migration from North Caucasus settled in
Duhok, Erbil and Sulaymaniyah."
I think Circassians mostly settled in Arab majority provinces while Dagestanis (mostly Lezgin) settled in Kurdish majority provinces. Interesting but it seems Circassians are more aware of their origins and preserved it much better than Dagestanis and Chechens.
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Yeah growing up i knew up Circassians in Iraq but not Chechens and Lezgins. I also noticed that Adygei are no 3 right after Lezgin and Armenian on the Kurd IBS list I posted in the other thread.Most of them dont know about their origins neither
"Circassians in Iraq were settled in Diyala, Baghdad, Mosul, Anbar (Fallujah), and Kirkuk
in particular. In addition, families who voluntarily migrated from North and South Dagestan in a short while before and after the forced migration from North Caucasus settled in
Duhok, Erbil and Sulaymaniyah."
I think Circassians mostly settled in Arab majority provinces while Dagestanis (mostly Lezgin) settled in Kurdish majority provinces. Interesting but it seems Circassians are more aware of their origins and preserved it much better than Dagestanis and Chechens.
It’s sad and frustrating that Kurds along with other people in the area don’t know much about their ancestors beyond their grand or great grand parents whether it be kurds in Balochistan or kurds in Caucauses or Iraq
All I can go by is mostly genetics which shows Iraqi Kurds with significantly more northern and eastern ancestry than many of their neighbors using IBS and formal stats
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