Total Fertility Rate in Europe (map)

[rothaer]

Here most likely Germans and Hungarians lowering fertility average in Serbian Vojvodina and Romanian part of Banat.

German figures were fine in 1870 - 1910 and from that time do hail the thoughts of having a notable surplus and having Lebensraum would be fine.

As for 1930: Yes, and now imagine you had already millions of losses in WWI, have this ferility figures (1930) and are starting Lebensraum wars for Germany, inevitably yielding additional losses of men in the best age for procreation! That it summed up to abt. 4 million military losses and abt. 7 million losses in total was not clear from the beginning, admittedly, but that the risk was given considering the experiences from WWI actually was clear. Both my grandfathers were Wehrmacht soldiers (over all death rate: 29%) that survived and my parents are both only children, born 1941 and 1942. What a demographic desaster!

We know the huge wrongs and damages that were done to other people, but the enormous mistreatment of the own German people by Hitler and his "visions" as an "artist" are often not thought of. (I now even exclude all psychological consequences as for today.) Pls don't misinterpret this as any self-pitying. It's not. It shall demonstrate that Hitler's Lebensraum conquest aims - regardless of it's military failure - from the very first beginning actually were nonsensical, harmful and irresponsible even from a German perspective.

[Davy Jones's Locker]

And the saddest part, is that those European governments don't decide to take any action to solve the issue of low birth rates like doing something to assure NATIVES have more children, and increase their fertility rates to at least 2.0.

Instead they come up with more abortion-friendly legislation, and the lefties come up with "solutions" like receiving millions of non-Europeans to compensate for the low fertility rate among Europeans.

That's what happens when who are in charge don't govern for their own people, but against them.

Some Governments in Europe have implemented policy changes to improve the situation but with limited success.

[Dušan]

Another map, very detailed, from 1930.

Year 1960.

[Nurzat]

Very interesting.
White catholics in Ulster, Arabs in Paris and Marseiile, Gypsies in Romania and Bulgaria, Kurds in Turkey.
In Albania Ghegs are on the highest spectrum, but Tosks the lowest.

you are actually totally wrong about Romania if you are implying the fertility in those counties scoring higher on the map is from Gypsies - those counties in northeast Romania that have highest fertility rate have lowest rates of Gypsies by far, the Gypsies are concentrated in southern Transylvania and southern Romania in general - in Romania, the northeastern area, i.e. Moldova region, which is northern-shifted compared to the rest of the territory (towards Ruthenian-like) has always had the highest fertility rates and is a very rural area as well.

so you cannot attribute that at least in the case of Romania to lower-class citizens, as I suppose you want to do from the particular populations you are mentioning

[Dušan]

Between 1930-1960 terrible fertility trasformations of Serbs and Ukrainians
From people with highest fertility rate to people with lowest fertility rate.

[Dušan]

you are actually totally wrong about Romania if you are implying the fertility in those counties scoring higher on the map is from Gypsies - those counties in northeast Romania that have highest fertility rate have lowest rates of Gypsies by far, the Gypsies are concentrated in southern Transylvania and southern Romania in general - in Romania, the northeastern area, i.e. Moldova region, which is northern-shifted compared to the rest of the territory (towards Ruthenian-like) has always had the highest fertility rates and is a very rural area as well.

so you cannot attribute that at least in the case of Romania to lower-class citizens, as I suppose you want to do from the particular populations you are mentioning

Yeah, Moldova region seems very healthy and vital.

[Nurzat]

Yeah, Moldova region seems very healthy and vital.

in Romania indeed Gypsies have much higher fertility rates compared to the other ethnic groups (though Gypsies aren't really an ethnic group anymore, their first language is Romanian for the vast majority, if anything they could be considered a social class, but even so they are integrated in Romanian communities for the most part), but it doesn't show on the map because Romanians have terribly low rates as well (most of my friends, acquaintances and relatives are still not married in their 30s and 40s and actually most are actually single, both men and women, most of them also gaining above average wages, so the problem is not financial, not looks or intelligence either, and it hits both my rural and urban acquaintances the same). so I guess Romania would show the same as Serbia maybe if the Gypsy fertility rates wouldn't bring the numbers up, except for Moldova region which for some reason is still very family-focused

[tropicalslavic]

I am European and would keep having kids if my dumb fuck hereditary hormonal problems weren't kicking in already in my late 20's. There's still hope though.

I'm sure it's been discussed to death but most people would be open to having more children if there were more very well thought out programs to support it, like there are in some European countries. Plus making abortion something that only occurs when the mother's life is in certain danger - like medically verifiable danger, not "it would make her big sad if she had a baby ". If people felt like raising productive citizens for their country was going to pay off with a nice retirement, tax benefits, etc., more people would feel like having kids is manageable.

[Zeno]

Well, having less people isn't necessarily too bad.

It's really bad when, along with fewer people as a whole, the makeup of the population is ethnically diversified. Then there will be huge problems. There are already huge problems.

[tropicalslavic]

Well, having less people isn't necessarily too bad.

It's really bad when, along with fewer people as a whole, the makeup of the population is ethnically diversified. Then there will be huge problems. There are already huge problems.

Having less people isn't necessarily bad in a place like India or China where they are nowhere near even being remotely endangered in the slightest.

There does come a point where even someone like me, who generally thinks people should do what they want, feels alarmed by the birth rates of most civilized Western nations.

Most people are so dumb they don't get it. I had to explain to my own mom that if every couple only has one child, we will die out. "How come?" - genuine question. As if each generation halving itself didn't mean that, you know, the population of the country/ethnicity/etc. was also halving. As if everyone could just go on forever only having one child at most.

If everyone in India and China did that for the next 100 years, they'd be fine.

The clock really is ticking for Western countries.