Debate -Religions of India.

[Randommembr]

Hindusim, Zoroastranism, Jainism, Buddhism etc.

[Longbowman]

If Zoroastrianism is an Indian religion then so are Islam, Christianity, Judaism and certainly Sikhism, not to mention Animism.

[Randommembr]

If Zoroastrianism is an Indian religion then so are Islam, Christianity, Judaism and certainly Sikhism, not to mention Animism.

Ok man, Parseeism/ Parsi Zoroastrianism. Do you know about the different sects of Zoroastrianism?

Also, how did i forget sikhi? What are views on that?

[Longbowman]

Ok man, Parseeism/ Parsi Zoroastrianism. Do you know about the different sects of Zoroastrianism?

Also, how did i forget sikhi? What are views on that?

Sikhism is heavily Abrahamic. It's like Islam meets Hinduism with a dash of Buddhism. I really admire the 8th and 9th Gurus though.

Yes, I am aware of the difference between Iranis and Parsis.

[Randommembr]

Sikhism is heavily Abrahamic. It's like Islam meets Hinduism with a dash of Buddhism. I really admire the 8th and 9th Gurus though.

Yes, I am aware of the difference between Iranis and Parsis.

no man. There are differences even among Parsis themselves. I'm not talking about Iranis vs Parsis. Most Iranis (not Iranian Zoroastrians but Iranis) are now heavily embedded with Parsi culture. Boman Irani, Perizaad Zorabian etc even had Parsi style weddings and most speak Gujarati. Parsis and Iranis are cultural-religious identites and not religious sects obviously.

Generally speaking the major Zoroastrian movements are

Orthodox Zoroastrianism

Reform Zoroastrianism (Maneckji Dhalla is a famous one).

‘Typical’ Parsi Zoroastrianism

Ilm-i Kshnoom

Neo-Zoroastrianism including the Mazdaznan movement, the Iraqi Kurdish Zoroastrians and Ali Jafarey’s followers.

Baba Mehr (though that's debateable).

There is also the Gatha only movement. Along with other forms like the blend of Iranian Zoroastrianism and Parsism which Iranis may practice. Older Zoroastrian forms are the Armenian one prior to Christianization, the Sassanian practices, Zurvanism and maybe even Mithraism.

Which one do you like or dislike?

As for Sikhism, I really respect the religion. I've read Sikhi philosophy. I like the 5 K concepts etc. It also helps that I can almost completely understand Punjabi haha. Sikhi is a great way to live your life.
It's really a shame how much violence they faced.

[Óttar]

Sikhism is heavily Abrahamic. It's like Islam meets Hinduism with a dash of Buddhism. I really admire the 8th and 9th Gurus though.

Yes, I am aware of the difference between Iranis and Parsis.

The Islamic influence mostly comes through Sufism as there were Persian Sufi sects that wore long hair, beards, iron bracelets, and who carried daggers as Granville-Brown tells us in his 19th century work, "A Year Amongst the Persians." Other than its monotheism and its distaste for three-dimensional statuary, Sikhism's trappings are thoroughly Dharmic. The Guru Granth Sahib contains prayers to Vishnu, the Bhagauthi sword, (cf. Sanskrit. Bhagavati - "Noblewoman, Lady") is regarded as a symbol and manifestation of the Feminine aspect (Shakti) of God, and its emphasis on God as the Supreme Guru has its origin in the late 8th century Guru Stotram composed by Adi Shankaracharya, which itself was based on earlier historical precedent.

[Longbowman]

no man. There are differences even among Parsis themselves. I'm not talking about Iranis vs Parsis. Most Iranis (not Iranian Zoroastrians but Iranis) are now heavily embedded with Parsi culture. Boman Irani, Perizaad Zorabian etc even had Parsi style weddings and most speak Gujarati. Parsis and Iranis are cultural-religious identites and not religious sects obviously.

Generally speaking the major Zoroastrian movements are

Orthodox Zoroastrianism

Reform Zoroastrianism (Maneckji Dhalla is a famous one).

‘Typical’ Parsi Zoroastrianism

Ilm-i Kshnoom

Neo-Zoroastrianism including the Mazdaznan movement, the Iraqi Kurdish Zoroastrians and Ali Jafarey’s followers.

Baba Mehr (though that's debateable).

There is also the Gatha only movement. Along with other forms like the blend of Iranian Zoroastrianism and Parsism which Iranis may practice. Older Zoroastrian forms are the Armenian one prior to Christianization, the Sassanian practices, Zurvanism and maybe even Mithraism.

Which one do you like or dislike?

As for Sikhism, I really respect the religion. I've read Sikhi philosophy. I like the 5 K concepts etc. It also helps that I can almost completely understand Punjabi haha. Sikhi is a great way to live your life.
It's really a shame how much violence they faced.

I don't like or dislike any of them, per se, it's my first time hearing of most of them, although not all of them, I knew Ilm-i Kshnoom, for example. Which one do you follow?

[Randommembr]

The Islamic influence mostly comes through Sufism as there were Persian Sufi sects that wore long hair, beards, iron bracelets, and who carried daggers as Granville-Brown tells us in his 19th century work, "A Year Amongst the Persians." Other than its monotheism and its distaste for three-dimensional statuary, Sikhism's trappings are thoroughly Dharmic. The Guru Granth Sahib contains prayers to Vishnu, the [I]Bhagauthi sword, (cf. Sanskrit. Bhagavati - "Noblewoman, Lady") is regarded as a symbol and manifestation of the Feminine aspect (Shakti) of God, and its emphasis on God as the Supreme Guru has its origin in the late 8th century Guru Stotram composed by Adi Shankaracharya, which itself was based on earlier historical precedent.

I mean Sikhi is literally a reform of Hinduism and Islam. Guru Nanak Dev himself was Hindu(born to Hindu parents) surrounded by Muslims and he set to create his own religion. So naturally it has elements of both religions.

“There is neither Hindu nor Mussulman (Muslim), but only man. So whose path shall I follow? I shall follow God’s path. God is neither Hindu nor Mussulman and the path which I follow is God’s.” Guru Nanak.

[Randommembr]

I don't like or dislike any of them, per se, it's my first time hearing of most of them, although not all of them, I knew Ilm-i Kshnoom, for example. Which one do you follow?

Well, what even are your view on Zoroastrianism haha?

I follow mostly reform with a focus on the Gathas and the younger Avesta. I reject texts (mostly) like the Vendidad. So when you say my logic and understanding on Zoroastrianism is highly flawed(like in the other thread), that's because you're looking at it from a Orthodox perspective (what most information on the internet is about) but considering that one of Iran's highest priests has rejected the Vendidad (http://www.zoroastrian.org.uk/vohuma...0Scripture.htm) and Maneckji Dhalla's work is more influential than ever before as well as the fact that the new Kurd Zarthustis don't look at any thing beyond the Gathas, more Zoroastrians than ever are returning to the original, traditional teachings of Zarathustra which is ironically called reformism.

You must also remember that Zoroastrians have a brutal history of persecution. We've lost so much documents (not the original Gathas though) and outside translators like Martin Haug etc have left their Abrahamic influence on the religion.

What do you think about the similarities between Jews and Parsis? European travelers like Montserrate (and more)have said they look extremely similar and have similar traditions as well. They are referred to as the Jews of India.

Lastly, do you think Zarathustra was a prophet of God in Islam? Arguably(according to some scholars and Iran's Islamic constitution), Zoroastrians are people of the book along with Jews and Christians and scholars like Shabir Ally said it's nearly impossible for Zoroaster not to be a prophet of Allah.

Of course, you don't have to reply to these questions if you find them long or uninteresting, but I think you are interested in religions, which is why I'm telling/asking you all of this. You can go ahead and discuss Sikhi or the various forms of Hinduism as well as your own belief if you'd like.

[Longbowman]

Well, what even are your view on Zoroastrianism haha?

I follow mostly reform with a focus on the Gathas and the younger Avesta. I reject texts (mostly) like the Vendidad. So when you say my logic and understanding on Zoroastrianism is highly flawed(like in the other thread), that's because you're looking at it from a Orthodox perspective (what most information on the internet is about) but considering that one of Iran's highest priests has rejected the Vendidad (http://www.zoroastrian.org.uk/vohuma...0Scripture.htm) and Maneckji Dhalla's work is more influential than ever before as well as the fact that the new Kurd Zarthustis don't look at any thing beyond the Gathas, more Zoroastrians than ever are returning to the original, traditional teachings of Zarathustra which is ironically called reformism.

You must also remember that Zoroastrians have a brutal history of persecution. We've lost so much documents (not the original Gathas though) and outside translators like Martin Haug etc have left their Abrahamic influence on the religion.

What do you think about the similarities between Jews and Parsis? European travelers like Montserrate (and more)have said they look extremely similar and have similar traditions as well. They are referred to as the Jews of India.

Lastly, do you think Zarathustra was a prophet of God in Islam? Arguably(according to some scholars and Iran's Islamic constitution), Zoroastrians are people of the book along with Jews and Christians and scholars like Shabir Ally said it's nearly impossible for Zoroaster not to be a prophet of Allah.

Of course, you don't have to reply to these questions if you find them long or uninteresting, but I think you are interested in religions, which is why I'm telling/asking you all of this. You can go ahead and discuss Sikhi or the various forms of Hinduism as well as your own belief if you'd like.

I have nothing against Zoroastrianism or its practitioners, I always found its history interesting and I'd have preferred it survive in Islam's stead.

Jews and Zoroastrians are similar historically imo, both monotheistic ethnoreligions that were kicked out of their homeland and became highly successful mercantile minorities elsewhere. However, I think the future is brighter for Jews than Zoroastrians. Still, Zoroastrians have had great impact on their surroundings. Look at all the people who celebrate Nowruz.

I'm not a Muslim but I don't think the Zoroastrians were a people of the book. However, it's not impossible. There were communities of them in the Arabian peninsula in the 5th and 6th centuries, including in Yemen. I don't think Zoroaster is enumerated as a prophet; if certain scholars disagree that's their opinion. Most Muslims haven't acted as if they were.