Who looks more alike: Swedes and Norwegians or Spaniards and Portuguese?

[Latinus]

Basques are just more isolated. With that isolation, genetically they usually lack a Roman presence and a moor presence. Not to say they don't have some percentage of both, it is not uncommon (more ancient if anything)... but they are closer to the original Iron Age samples. In terms of appearance though (Which I think CV is getting at), there is no difference at all and you can see Basque people look the same as the most western Portuguese person at times.



As you can see the Basque's lack a southern shift, so they are a bit more to the western portion of the PCA, while Portugal and Spain are a tad more eastern, and this b/c of the isolation from Roman influences. But it still basically overlaps with Spain. Also, modern day Portuguese and Spanish are predominantly NW_Iberia_IA (Iron Age) with specs of roman and berber so it isn't surprising phenotypes overlap in a homogenous way all throughout the peninsula.

But aren't most Spanish Basques mixed with Castilians/Andalusians, which would southern shift their genetics and make them less genetically isolated?

[Luso]

But aren't most Spanish Basques mixed with Castilians/Andalusians, which would southern shift their genetics and make them less genetically isolated?

Yes, modern-day Basques get a tad southern shift b/c of that influence. But native Basques who don't move a lot on avg get a higher NW_Iberia_IA than other Spaniards and of course Portuguese. Basically, they are intermediate with affinity 50/50 (typically) between their old basque isolation population, and what was the product of roman conquest in all other parts of Spain and Portugal. BUTTT... and this is a big but.. Look at the PCA. Basques also have been mingling in the modern age a lot with french hence the westward shift even more so than Iron age samples-- but this is my theory.

[Oliver109]

Yes, modern-day Basques get a tad southern shift b/c of that influence. But native Basques who don't move a lot on avg get a higher NW_Iberia_IA than other Spaniards and of course Portuguese. Basically, they are intermediate with affinity 50/50 (typically) between their old basque isolation population, and what was the product of roman conquest in all other parts of Spain and Portugal. BUTTT... and this is a big but.. Look at the PCA. Basques also have been mingling in the modern age a lot with french hence the westward shift even more so than Iron age samples-- but this is my theory.

Pretty interesting explanation there, would you say Alicantinians from my mother's region cluster more with Basque's or the Portuguese?

[Luso]

Pretty interesting explanation there, would you say Alicantinians from my mother's region cluster more with Basque's or the Portuguese?

I wouldn't know honestly. I'd think Portuguese.

[Samnium]

Pretty interesting explanation there, would you say Alicantinians from my mother's region cluster more with Basque's or the Portuguese?

Southern Spaniards cluster more with Portuguese from what I've seen.

[Oliver109]

Southern Spaniards cluster more with Portuguese from what I've seen.

Perhaps though people in Alicante always gave me more of a pan Med vibe than people in Portugal, perhaps being a city that has been ruled by so many different peoples has had an effect but certainly when there you seem to see a greater variety of Med phenotypes i think and no particular look that would mark you down as being from that region imo.

[Samnium]

Perhaps though people in Alicante always gave me more of a pan Med vibe than people in Portugal, perhaps being a city that has been ruled by so many different peoples has had an effect but certainly when there you seem to see a greater variety of Med phenotypes i think and no particular look that would mark you down as being from that region imo.

Phenotypes aren't completely correlated to genetics. So when you get to these intra-national differences it can get very tricky. Even more in Southern European countries where you can find a great variability.

[Oliver109]

Phenotypes aren't completely correlated to genetics. So when you get to these intra-national differences it can get very tricky. Even more in Southern European countries where you can find a great variability.

That's the thing, which is what makes the study a bit more difficult, just how you can have an Australoid from India who is similar to one from SE Asia or Australia yet genetically they are vastly different, so these studies that say show the British and Russians as very different despite many similar looking people are not going to fully explain things.

[Damião de Góis]

Southern Spaniards cluster more with Portuguese from what I've seen.

Basques have poorer distances with most iberian regions:

Distance to:	Spanish_Alacant
0.01236979	Spanish_Galicia
0.01270122	Spanish_Eivissa
0.01318539	Spanish_Valencia
0.01336328	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.01367422	Spanish_Andalucia
0.01471324	Spanish_Mallorca
0.01489387	Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.01494888	Spanish_Cataluna
0.01498902	Portuguese
0.01516024	Spanish_Castello
0.01531743	Spanish_Pirineu
0.01592805	Spanish_Cantabria
0.01605014	Spanish_Extremadura
0.01607585	Spanish_Baleares
0.01635993	Spanish_Penedes
0.01648591	Spanish_Girona
0.01653781	Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.01667130	Spanish_Lleida
0.01692583	Spanish_Aragon
0.01729458	Spanish_Murcia
0.01770514	Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.01866807	Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.01911568	Spanish_Navarra
0.01932289	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.01945388	Spanish_Barcelones
0.01973143	Spanish_Menorca
0.02656207	French_Provence
0.02809284	French_Auvergne
0.02838779	French_South
0.02886236	Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02942289	Spanish_Asturias
0.02978049	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03104385	French_Occitanie
0.03110505	Swiss_French
0.03167200	Italian_Bergamo
0.03218858	Spanish_Soria
0.03237353	Italian_Veneto
0.03270972	Spanish_La_Rioja
0.03486822	Italian_Lombardy
0.03574118	Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.03809265	Italian_Northeast
0.03864067	Basque_French
0.03885161	French_Corsica
0.03892601	Italian_Liguria
0.03907387	Italian_Piedmont
0.04027764	Swiss_Italian
0.04097153	Spanish_Canarias
0.04172267	Basque_Spanish
0.04280623	French_Paris
0.04337148	Swiss_German

As for we, we cluster with western regions not southern ones, though distances are generally low all around.

[Oliver109]

Basques have poorer distances with most iberian regions:

Distance to:	Spanish_Alacant
0.01236979	Spanish_Galicia
0.01270122	Spanish_Eivissa
0.01318539	Spanish_Valencia
0.01336328	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.01367422	Spanish_Andalucia
0.01471324	Spanish_Mallorca
0.01489387	Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.01494888	Spanish_Cataluna
0.01498902	Portuguese
0.01516024	Spanish_Castello
0.01531743	Spanish_Pirineu
0.01592805	Spanish_Cantabria
0.01605014	Spanish_Extremadura
0.01607585	Spanish_Baleares
0.01635993	Spanish_Penedes
0.01648591	Spanish_Girona
0.01653781	Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.01667130	Spanish_Lleida
0.01692583	Spanish_Aragon
0.01729458	Spanish_Murcia
0.01770514	Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.01866807	Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.01911568	Spanish_Navarra
0.01932289	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.01945388	Spanish_Barcelones
0.01973143	Spanish_Menorca
0.02656207	French_Provence
0.02809284	French_Auvergne
0.02838779	French_South
0.02886236	Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02942289	Spanish_Asturias
0.02978049	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03104385	French_Occitanie
0.03110505	Swiss_French
0.03167200	Italian_Bergamo
0.03218858	Spanish_Soria
0.03237353	Italian_Veneto
0.03270972	Spanish_La_Rioja
0.03486822	Italian_Lombardy
0.03574118	Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.03809265	Italian_Northeast
0.03864067	Basque_French
0.03885161	French_Corsica
0.03892601	Italian_Liguria
0.03907387	Italian_Piedmont
0.04027764	Swiss_Italian
0.04097153	Spanish_Canarias
0.04172267	Basque_Spanish
0.04280623	French_Paris
0.04337148	Swiss_German

As for we, we cluster with western regions not southern ones, though distances are generally low all around.

V interesting, interesting also to see Alicante more similar to Portugal than some parts of central Spain, it must be the stronger Med influence in both regions.