Varg Vikernes aka Vargling Vickers, ThuleanPerspective NordCope Fantasies Debunked

[ArdenTiberius]

This is a long thread that debunks many of the pseudo beliefs Varg and his ignorant cult has. His cult of fans are far more pathetic than he is since they ling to everything he says and they never question it.


I have been monitoring Vargs twitter for a long time but I recently stopped, I compiled a list of his deluded pseudo tweets. He has very ignorant and misguided pseudo beliefs when it comes to ancestral genetics and history. Instead of posting all his posts here I will list all his pseudo cult beliefs and debunk each one. There was a guy named LigueresAmbrones on there before, some North Italian who was also a self hater, I made him disable his account. Varg and Pallando are cowards and they block most people on twitter who disagree with them.

VargCult belief list. I call them VargTards but Varg is extremely triggered if you insult him even though I enjoy mutual insults when debating, I won't insult him since hes so triggered about that.

1. Neanderthals are Nordic , Light hair and light eyes are indigenous European features.

Genetics has proven that Neanderthals had the genes for light hair and eyes, the Cromagnons inherited the genes for blue eyes by mixing with Neanderthal groups in Europe. Indigenous Europeans were Cromagnons, Neanderthals are a different subspecies and cannot be considered European or Caucasoid. Obviously Neanderthals are not Nordic, you can tell by looking at them. Phenotypically they are not Nordic at all nor do they fall into the Caucasoid skull/nose range. The indigenous Europeans had around 5-10% Neanderthal DNA by the time Caucasoid Neolithic farmers and later IndoEuropean descended Cultures/Bronze Age migrants entered Europe.




2. Cromagnons are Mulatto "mixed"

Another fantasy, Cromagnons are Caucasoid as is proven by their skull measurements.

http://racialreality.blogspot.com/20...%20so%20forth.

https://miro.medium.com/max/420/0*0lTGGTb3UERwto5S Picture of a Cromagnon recontruction.

Neanderthal and Cromagnon




3. Indigenous Europeans all had fair skin , light hair and eyes.

Indigenous Europeans universally had the genes for light eyes and dark skin when it came to mainland Europeans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_co...olor_in_Europe Western and Central European Hunter Gatherers all had genes for light eyes and dark skin.




4. Nordics are pure unmixed Europeans.

http://humanphenotypes.net/basic/Nordid.html


Metrically they are a depigmented mix of Danubian,Gracile med,/AtlantoMed-UP+Iranoafghan. Their outward appearance often looks different since they have less face fat than Meds. Other Nordics have a strong Cromagnid element. AtlantoMed phenotypes have skull and nose measurements that are very close to Hallstatt Nordics.

Nordic Phenotypes were not in Europe in large numbers until this Culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture The origins of the Corded Ware people were Swarthy Non-Nordic Yamna who mixed with fair skinned Eastern European Hunter Gatherers. They were likely the small blue eyed minority within the Yamna Culture who migrated into new regions.

All the Nothern European types except Strandid are considered Nordic, Brunn, Daleofalid and Borreby are Cromagnid types mixed with Nordics. The transitional types SubNordid and Norid are also mixed Nords.


5. Ancient Egypt was once European looking and were genetically close with Europeans.


https://www.nature.com/news/mummy-dn...cestry-1.22069 Ancient Egyptian mummies were genetically closer to modern Levant populations and Ancient Neolithic Europeans, this is because modern North Egyptians have 8-15% Black admixture depending on the person, South Egyptians, many are heavily mixed and have 30-50% Black admixture depending on the person. Genetics has proven Sub-Saharan DNA increased in Egypt after it was conquered by the Muslims, this shows the Roman Empire likely had policies in place to limit the amount of Black migrants in their Empire. The Arabs took many black female slaves, most of the Black admixture they have today comes from women.

King Tut himself was R1b-V88, he is genetically closer to middle eastern R1b men, R1b-V88 is not a lineage that is present with European men.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc01...marildotopalis Ancient Egyptian Pharaohs did not look European either but one should also remember that it was common for Egyptian Pharaohs to take foreign brides which is why some Pharaohs had lighter eyes, more so than the common population % wise. Most Pharaohs had brown eyes as shining LED lights on old faded tomb sarcophagus has shown.

The reason why they depicted blue eyed statues (one of them is a Pharaoh) is because blue eyes was very rare in Egypt. Most people with light eyes in these cultures had brown/amber mixed color eyes, green or hazel.

http://www.hennabysienna.com/henna-i...ent-world.html Many Pharaohs had light hair but most of it is henna. Some Egyptians have light hair in their youth and it darkens with age. Here are some pictures of Egyptian children with light hair.

https://imgur.com/a/9FvR5VT


I also lost this high res photo of a dark brown eyed boy in Cairo who had golden blonde hair, his hair color looked exactly like king tuts grave almost.


6. Ancient Greece Was Nordic And Nordics Are Responsible for the greatness of that civilization.


Another cope fantasy.

https://www.greecehighdefinition.com...ancient-greeks The Nordic element in Ancient Greece was very small, the Nordic phenotypes/mixed Nordic phenotypes were likely a minority element among the Dorian Greeks, the latest migrants to Ancient Greece.



Ancestral genetics also proves modern Greeks descend from Ancient Greeks.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...nt-dna-reveals

The Mycenaean Culture in Ancient Greece was likely J2+R1a, they migrated from the Steppe into Greece but they were already genetically similar to the Minoans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycena...enetic_studies


7. Ancient Romans looked different from modern Italians, more "Nordic" and don't descend from Modern Italians. Also mixed with their slaves.

https://racialreality.blogspot.com/2...lavery-re.html

He makes the ignorant claim that Romans all mixed with their slaves which is a complete fantasy. I wrote an essay on Roman slavery and slave masters would free their slaves, Non-Italian slaves would not mix with Italians. People don't realize that the Italian population in ancient times was generally far more racist than it is today (and even then Italians are generally more Right wing and tribalistic compared to North Euro's). Foreigners were considered Barbarians.

This table is also debunked. Seiglin is not a reliable source. He purposely mistranslated caesaris which means dark.

https://latin-dictionary.net/definit...ries-caesariei

https://www.theapricity.com/earlson/...y/emperors.htm The bias apricity link.

https://medium.com/@davieco/were-rom...e-2255ec77d123 Much of it is debunked here.

Even if you were to take most of the apricity source as fact (ignoring bias Seiglin) , many Emperors still have dark hair and eyes. Caligula was proven to have brown/amber eyes yet there is no recorded eye color. I am convinced that they were only recording the eye colors of Emperors that had an eye color that was light or really dark. "Wine colored" eyes are like Russet.



Russet is very close to the color of Red Wine.



So even if you take most of the Apricity link as fact, 9 have grey/blue/green eyes. 7 of the - have amber/brown eyes like honey. The 2 Wine colored is russet. 5 have yellow blonde or auburn reddish hair and 13 would have had dark brown or black hair (some grey due to old age).




8. Ancient Italian Romans were physically inferior to Germans

This is a cope for the fact that his people were defeated by an Italian Empire for over 500 years. The Germanic tribes sacked Rome due to the Empire not conquering them all when they had the chance. Tiberius was jealous of General Germanicus and this dynasty had the most Italian recruits. 65-75% of the men were from Italy during this time. All Italian men would have been in the citizen legions that better armor. The average Germanic tribes man overall during this time (all tribes, this will vary) was 5'8, the average Ancient Italian man during this time was 5'6. The difference isn't massive. At least half of the Auxiliaries were also Southern European.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperi...my#Recruitment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanicus#Result


""They are less able to endure toil or fatiguing tasks and cannot bear thirst or heat,"

There was also a part that said their initial attack, though powerful, they were unable to sustain thirst and tired quickly. "

https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~w...arbarians.html

[Nurzat]

I like Varg but of course he doesn't seem to be right on these theories (nor some others)

still he shouldn't be censored by yt/fb and such

[RogueState]

Regarding ancient Greece and Rome, AFAIK genetically speaking, they were plotting more "southern" than current Greeks and Italians, because both of them got "bleached" either through Slavic invasion (for Greece) or Germanic invasion (for Italy)

Completely opposite of the common narrative that Greeks were "Turkish rape babies" and Italians "Moor rape babies" (add also Iberians for that stereotype).

[PaleoEuropean]

Varg Vikernes is not an anthropologist or academic. He has crappy musician and attention whore. I don't think any educated or sane person legitimately listens to him for academic insight. Kind of a waste of time to debunk someone who has no credibility to begin with.

[billsoncreole26]

I'm partly with you on the other stuff but R1b-V88 is mostly found in Chadic people in Central Africa, Copts in Sudan and Siwa Berbers in Egypt and is rarely found outside Africa.

Sent from my SM-G770F using Tapatalk

[Faklon]

The indigenous Europeans had around 5-10% Neanderthal DNA by the time Caucasoid Neolithic farmers and later IndoEuropean descended Cultures/Bronze Age migrants entered Europe

Why would cro-magnons have more Neanderthal ancestry than farmers and Steppe and why should it be as much as 10% compared to 1-2% today?

Neanderthal remains are found all around Eurasia, morphologically it may even make sense that Steppe had more Neanderthal influence but it still is sophism. These are very recent subgroups compared to Neanderthals.

Is there any study that evaluates on Neanderthal ancestry in pre-history?

[Creoda]

Wow, yet another thread about Varg Vikernes by an angry Southern Euro.

I've been reading that King Tut's Y-DNA is of Steppe and probably Bell Beaker origin.

[Tauromachos]

Regarding ancient Greece and Rome, AFAIK genetically speaking, they were plotting more "southern" than current Greeks and Italians, because both of them got "bleached" either through Slavic invasion (for Greece) or Germanic invasion (for Italy)

Completely opposite of the common narrative that Greeks were "Turkish rape babies" and Italians "Moor rape babies" (add also Iberians for that stereotype).

There was no Slavic invasion in Greece just some Slavic migration and mingling with Greeks

Greeks got bleached but from different sources not only Slavic

[XenophobicPrussian]

His cult of fans are far more pathetic than he is since they ling to everything he says and they never question it.

This is rather anti-Med and anti-east Euro, as most Varg fans(and I mean the persona, not the musician) are Southern European, Argentinian/Brazilian, and East Slavic. You can't check anymore because he's banned, but back when he had a Youtube channel, his comment section was filled with people with usernames like "BulgarianViking88" and Iberians asking in all caps "WHAT ABOUT GREEN EYES VARG, ARE THEY WHITE???"


You are about as dumb as Varg btw, 90% of the stuff he says is factually incorrect but atleast over half the things you said here are factually incorrect:

Genetics has proven that Neanderthals had the genes for light hair and eyes, the Cromagnons inherited the genes for blue eyes by mixing with Neanderthal groups in Europe. Indigenous Europeans were Cromagnons, Neanderthals are a different subspecies and cannot be considered European or Caucasoid.

No evidence for this, there have been studies stating Neanderthals most likely had dark hair and eyes, along with dark skin. The studies that assume they had light features like red hair are basing it off of closely related SNPs present in Neanderthals, but there are closely related SNPs to ones associated in humans that do literally nothing or something completely different. Cro-Magnons did not have light eyes, only their later mesolithic descendants did.

Cromagnons are Mulatto "mixed" - Another fantasy, Cromagnons are Caucasoid as is proven by their skull measurements.

Indians and Ethiopians are also Caucasoid as proven by their skull measurements. Cro-Magnons are not "mixed", but had more affinity to foreign populations(such as Papuans especially craniometrically, but really every other population), both genetically and craniometrically, because modern Europeans and European hunter-gatherers post-17k BC or so have a lot of extra genetic drift. A Cro-Magnon is literally a proto-Eurasian, ancestral to all Eurasian populations(including the famous French Cro-Magnon sample the people are named after, he's literally only 10k years or so diverged from the ancestors of other humans). You're really only talking something possibly "purely European" by 17k BC, the genetic drift away from other humans getting stronger as time went on. Caucasoid is also a very useless term, even Coon noted Ethiopians have very little craniometric differences from other Caucasoids and we know they are mixed.

Metrically they are a depigmented mix of Danubian,Gracile med,/AtlantoMed-UP+Iranoafghan. Their outward appearance often looks different since they have less face fat than Meds. Other Nordics have a strong Cromagnid element. AtlantoMed phenotypes have skull and nose measurements that are very close to Hallstatt Nordics.

Coon craniometric pseudo-science(pick one or the other, either argue genetics or craniometry, because genetics completely debunks most craniometry). Btw, metric Atlanto-Med peaks in North Africa, Mediterannid in Saudi Arabia.

Ancestral genetics also proves modern Greeks descend from Ancient Greeks.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017...nt-dna-reveals

The Mycenaean Culture in Ancient Greece was likely J2+R1a, they migrated from the Steppe into Greece but they were already genetically similar to the Minoans.

J2 in Greeks is from Copper/Bronze Age Anatolia, not steppe migrants. J2 is almost non-existent in Corded Ware and even Yamnaya. They were similar(largely, because the steppe got diluted by mixing with Minoans) after they already got to Greece or the southern Balkans, not during or before the process. Also, Myceneans from mainland northern Greece had far more steppe than the Crete ones. Off topic but you should also explain, while Minoans and Myceneans are basically the same people(15% steppe admixture won't make much of a difference), Minoans, while still majority descended from, are still different from previous neolithic Greeks who had less recent post-neolithic MENA.

He makes the ignorant claim that Romans all mixed with their slaves which is a complete fantasy. I wrote an essay on Roman slavery and slave masters would free their slaves, Non-Italian slaves would not mix with Italians. People don't realize that the Italian population in ancient times was generally far more racist than it is today (and even then Italians are generally more Right wing and tribalistic compared to North Euro's). Foreigners were considered Barbarians.

Cool story bro. Genetics says otherwise. Republican Romans = cluster with Iberians, urban Imperial Rome = cluster inbetween Cypriots and South Italians with clear mixes and outlier MENA migrants present, modern Italians = cluster inbetween both. There also needs to be an explanation for all those haplogroups like J2 and non-EV13 E1b, nearly completely absent from neolithic farmers.



Everything else is right. Congratulations, you just spent 10+ minutes debunking a convicted murderer.

Regarding ancient Greece and Rome, AFAIK genetically speaking, they were plotting more "southern" than current Greeks and Italians, because both of them got "bleached" either through Slavic invasion (for Greece) or Germanic invasion (for Italy)

Completely opposite of the common narrative that Greeks were "Turkish rape babies" and Italians "Moor rape babies" (add also Iberians for that stereotype).

Simply wrong, Republican Romans clustered with Iberians(therefore much more northern/more native Euro than Italians). Greeks, yes, although I don't think the OP will appreciate hearing Greeks having 20-25% Slavic admixture(and more if we count Balkan as Slavic instead of a proper East Slavic proxy for original Slavs).

[Radimir]

This is rather anti-Med and anti-east Euro, as most Varg fans(and I mean the persona, not the musician) are Southern European, Argentinian/Brazilian, and East Slavic. You can't check anymore because he's banned, but back when he had a Youtube channel, his comment section was filled with people with usernames like "BulgarianViking88" and Iberians asking in all caps "WHAT ABOUT GREEN EYES VARG, ARE THEY WHITE???"


You are about as dumb as Varg btw, 90% of the stuff he says is factually incorrect but atleast over half the things you said here are factually incorrect:


No evidence for this, there have been studies stating Neanderthals most likely had dark hair and eyes, along with dark skin. The studies that assume they had light features like red hair are basing it off of closely related SNPs present in Neanderthals, but there are closely related SNPs to ones associated in humans that do literally nothing or something completely different. Cro-Magnons did not have light eyes, only their later mesolithic descendants did.


Indians and Ethiopians are also Caucasoid as proven by their skull measurements. Cro-Magnons are not "mixed", but had more affinity to foreign populations(such as Papuans especially craniometrically, but really every other population), both genetically and craniometrically, because modern Europeans and European hunter-gatherers post-17k BC or so have a lot of extra genetic drift. A Cro-Magnon is literally a proto-Eurasian, ancestral to all Eurasian populations(including the famous French Cro-Magnon sample the people are named after, he's literally only 10k years or so diverged from the ancestors of other humans). You're really only talking something possibly "purely European" by 17k BC, the genetic drift away from other humans getting stronger as time went on. Caucasoid is also a very useless term, even Coon noted Ethiopians have very little craniometric differences from other Caucasoids and we know they are mixed.


Coon craniometric pseudo-science(pick one or the other, either argue genetics or craniometry, because genetics completely debunks most craniometry). Btw, metric Atlanto-Med peaks in North Africa, Mediterannid in Saudi Arabia.


J2 in Greeks is from Copper/Bronze Age Anatolia, not steppe migrants. J2 is almost non-existent in Corded Ware and even Yamnaya. They were similar(largely, because the steppe got diluted by mixing with Minoans) after they already got to Greece or the southern Balkans, not during or before the process. Also, Myceneans from mainland northern Greece had far more steppe than the Crete ones. Off topic but you should also explain, while Minoans and Myceneans are basically the same people(15% steppe admixture won't make much of a difference), Minoans, while still majority descended from, are still different from previous neolithic Greeks who had less recent post-neolithic MENA.


Cool story bro. Genetics says otherwise. Republican Romans = cluster with Iberians, urban Imperial Rome = cluster with Cypriots with clear mixes and outlier MENA migrants already present, modern Italians = cluster inbetween both. There also needs to be an explanation for all those haplogroups like J2, nearly completely absent from neolithic farmers.



Everything else is right. Congratulations, you just spent 10+ minutes debunking a convicted murderer.

Simply wrong, Republican Romans clustered with Iberians(therefore much more northern/more native Euro than Italians). Greeks, yes, although I don't think the OP will appreciate hearing Greeks having 20-25% Slavic admixture(and more if we count Balkan as Slavic instead of a proper East Slavic proxy for original Slavs).

Excellent reply, and yeah most Varg fans are Southern European which is ironic both in the comments as well as in real life, like these fans who showed up to meet him.







It's so amusing, I don't see any Blond haired or blue eyed Nordic in the crowd, they all look like the dark haired and brown eyed people, he would call non-White on his former YouTube channel and current Twitter profile. Haha.