Poll: do you agree with Huntington's civilizations map?

[Finnish Swede]

I don't agree with these maps because it put such countries in same group who have nothing to do with each other. For example no way that Spain is closer to Finland than to Greece. Also Hungary, Slovakia, Czechia etc are central not eastern or western, i don't think that japanese and chinese are different thir culture is very similar etc.

I hope that comment of yours did not mean that you would opposite put Finland east? As East here means together with Russia.

Just as the border between Russia (or Sovet Union earlier) and exactly the differences between those two countries determinates the whole existance of Finland (as a country).

In real life the differences are:

A.) bigger than those people's genetic differences.

B.) bigger than those people religion differences (Lutheran vs Orthodox).

C.) bigger than those people language differences (Finnish / Finno Ugric language vs Russian / Slavic language)

D.) bigger than those people aphabet differences (Finns Latin script vs Russians Cyrillic script)

Shortly saying the differences were big enough than Finns were willing to defense/protect their country into the last man standing (the same did not happen many countries in Europe vs Nazis). And not only men but also many women and even children helped on that on their own ways. And Finns if any knows and knew Russians beforehand via long common history. That attitude of Finns did not come from nothing. Communism was just tiny part of all that. Finns did not fight against communists or communism (mainly), they fought against Russians (and everything what that includes/represents ... or being ''East'' here).

Now any idea what it is?

As being in Sweden now (which is calculated West) ... not because of Sweden or rest of Scandinavia ... but as looking some other countries which are also always marked part of west (like you said) => I feel no automatical reason to call Finland west either. Only as it is many ways better than some of ''western'' countries. Even in the main principles/cornerstones of being ''Western'', like
* human rights,
* equality,
* democracy.
... and how those issues also really works in real (not only in papers). Or how separate / distant /independent political leadership, media and judicial system are from each others.

Nothing to adore ''west'' or be wannabe member . The main/only point still is that Finland is not similar as Russia. If that needs own color; fits better than well.

Reality is what means/counts, not cheap maps.

[Suinthila]

If not, why?

No, I don't agree.

It's a map made from the point of view of an anglosaxon feeling concerning to people. In short, biased.

[Creoda]

It's a bit arbitrary, but my concept of civilisations is different from most. After the Cold War it's hard to argue for genuinely separate civilisations in Europe.

I like that Latin America is separate from Western though.

[Suinthila]

It's a bit arbitrary, but my concept of civilisations is different from most. After the Cold War it's hard to argue for genuinely separate civilisations in Europe.

I like that Latin America is separate from Western though.

Exactly, you like, like Huntinton

[Videx]

Not really. Japan has its own category, and Europe's too simple. It's a lot more complicated than that.

[Sandman]

[QUOTE=Hektor12;7119132]Outdated concept belongs to cold war era.


Huntington's theory appeared in the early 1990s after the "Cold War".

[Blondie]

[FONT=arial]I hope that comment of yours did not mean that you would opposite put Finland east? As East here means together with Russia.]

I mean Finland has nothing to do with Spain, but they are in same group in this map. Finland is north european not eastern.

[Jana]

I mean Finland has nothing to do with Spain, but they are in same group in this map. Finland is north european not eastern.

Map is about civilizations, not regions. There is no central civilization either.

[Zeno]

No. It makes no sense to invent an "African Civilisation" which doesn't include 1/3 of Africa, namely some black African countries and at the same time to put Senegal, Albania and Indonesia in the same group just because they are muslims. Why Bosnia and Kosovo are not in the Islamic civilisation in this case? Also Phillipines are not most western than Japan or South Korea. Even if they are christian. Or otherwise we should label Congo as "western" because it is also christian.

Kazakhstan is not orthodox in majority but muslim. Israël is not islamic, but is part of Orient.

Jamaica is not shown on the map. Of course, it's neither Western neither Latin America, just like Haiti it's just an extension of Black Africa in the West Indies.

I prefer this map:

Greece here objectively belongs in the "Occident" category.

[Token]

Map is about civilizations, not regions. There is no central civilization either.

Truly Central Europe is just part of the West in a civilizational sense. Nations until very recently (and arguably even today, which is the point Huntington was trying to make) felt kinship first and foremost with nations of the same religion, which after many centuries eventually led to political, economic and cultural interlockings between nations of the same religion. I'm yet to see a precise definition of this elusive central Europe, people generally can't get past the 'mix of Germanic and Slavic cultures' thing, which is extremely vague.