Why isn't Basque language indo-European, if vast majority of Basques are R1a and R1b?

[Suinthila]

Probably has more to do with lack of aggression in a minority of IE invaders, plus fewer numbers, made to feel welcome, gradual assimilation. They also weren't Romanized, but neither were Brythonics and Goidelics.

The Vascons --old basques-- were indeed romanised and there are several proofs which prove it; besides they were the first people in the peninsula that received the roman citizenship thanks to their help to the Romans in the fighting against other people in the peninsula. Aside from that, they also took part with the romans in the military campaigns in Britannia and in Mauritania. Another different thing is that they were not latinised.

[NSXD60]

The Vascons --old basques-- were indeed romanised and there are several proofs which prove it; besides they were the first people in the peninsula that received the roman citizenship thanks to their help to the Romans in the fighting against other people in the peninsula. Aside from that, they also took part with the romans in the military campaigns in Britannia and in Mauritania. Another different thing is that they were not latinised.

Granted, but I meant linguisticllly, not culturally.

[Suinthila]

Granted, but I meant linguisticllly, not culturally.

Latinised would be then the correct term to be used and not romanised. They were indeed romanised, as said.

[gixajo]

Latinised would be then the correct term to be used and not romanised. They were indeed romanised, as said.

Well, we already odn´t know if the Vascones spoke a different language than other (celt)Iberian tribes.

The hypothesis of "vasconización tardía" (genetically Iberian-like Aquitanians that brought the Basque language back to the Iberian Peninsula in the early middle age,displacing or assimilating previous native peoples who had already adopted the Latin / Romance language-Caristios, Várdulos, Autrigones, Berones including also original Vascones), mixed with the theory of "vasco-iberismo" (the original peoples of the Iberian peninsula all spoke variants of an Iberian language similar to proto-Basque) it is more likely than ever.

Genetically the main difference with others(or some) Iberians is the (usually) absence of IberoMurissian and this absence is completed by a higher "WHG".

A sufficient difference to differentiate themselves from other peninsular regions (as others can differentiate themselves by other specific proportions of ancient components), but insufficient in my opinion, to make them a different category from Iberian.



The Basques are not mysterious mythological beings who came from prediluvian times, nor did they inhabit the paradise just after Adam and Eve, nor do they come from the Caucasus, they are simply Iberian.

[TheOldNorth]

The bronze age basque babies probably just took their mother's tongue, and their father's genes

[Rædwald]

Indo-Europeans moved in and took the women? They did it everywhere else they went.

[gixajo]

Not to mention that the Basque references that exist in those calculators (Gedmatch, G25 or any other) are the most "pure" that they could have found, and therefore they are representative of ideal Basque individuals, and I am maybe very optimistic saying that not even half of the results of Basque people who still live and have all their ancestors of at least two centuries born in Basque regions, (probably less than 20% of the total population of Basque Country, French Basque Country and Nabarre) will resemble the results of those references.

By the way, now that I see the title of the thread, as far as it is known, there is no R1a in Basques, although there is in the neighboring region of Cantabria, which is where there is more% of R1a in the entire Iberian peninsula (Z93), especially among "Pasiegos".

[gixajo]

Indo-Europeans moved in and took the women? They did it everywhere else they went.

Exactly the same as in the rest of the peninsula, as a general rule but in different proportions, the R1b is the majority in the entire Iberian peninsula. It reaches around 85% in the Basque country, but in Eastern Andalusia it reaches 77%, in the Northeast of Castilla 72% and in Catalonia around 80%. or in Menorca around 70%.

It does not usually go below 50% anywhere in the peninsula.

Edit:That is why many companies have taken a basque related component as reference for Iberian in autosomal results.On MyHeritage, the closer you got to the Basque core zone, the more Iberico you scored on their ethnic estimates for example.

[PaleoEuropean]

title

The highest concentration of I2 in Spain is in the Basque country and Northern Spain, language and genetics also don't go hand in hand. The area would have been a bastion for Celtic tribes pushed inward from the Iberians, Latins, Franks, Germanics etc. The Basques R1b are mostly Celtic from my understanding. Also European Hg's were super diverse and only one instance of inbreeding is known which was covered by Survive the Jive. When HG's mixed with Farmers and Herders most of them didnt stick around, they would spread indo-european female lineages as they moved with the flow of deer and fish back into their main hunting grounds or where they isolated themselves. The Indo-Europeans werent horse riding nomads, they lived a sedentary life and didnt really move around except toward and in the bronze age which they already were mixed. I2 yamanaya remains have been found showing that they mixed heavily early on and if I remember correctly that I2 yamanaya wasnt found with any R1b remains, which is pretty interesting.

U5 specifically isn't particularly European and probably came from the haplogroup C peoples or hg's mixing with Uralics which they have been for a long time.




You can see from these maps that I2 and U5 in the Basque lands are about the same except U5 is more concentrated which really doesnt mean anything except that there could be more female births in that area.

[PaleoEuropean]

Another point to that is that language is spread by trade, the Hg's spread far and wide and probably contacted Farmers and herders before they entered Europe, the Basques aren't really a trading people, they are isolated like the Cornish who's language has somewhat survived, Welsh, Irish etc. The people who settled there would have needed to learn the local language more than the people there who had no need for trade languages except in modern times where French and Spanish are both widely spoken in their respective areas of the Basque land. As where somewhere like Sardinia had to rely on trade and dealing with outsiders, they just had the perfect storm of isolation all while gaining waves of immigrants adding to the genepool and society.

There is also the fact we have no idea where the Basque language comes from, it could just be some local language people made up a couple thousand of years ago and has nothing to with Farmers, Indos or HGs. There are many more questions than answers.