Lithuania wants compensation for Soviet-era 'occupation'

[Hochmeister]

That's why we can compare what we have and what we would have now. I think this is the hardest part for you to understand.

The Baltic States used to be among the poorest countries in Europe in 1930's.
And there was no an occupation. Since every occupation does ligally mean an armed conflict and a storm of a capital.
There was a lot of Lithuanins who supported the Soviets. I'd say 50/50. That's why there was no an armed conflict (compare it with the Soviet -Finnisg war). That was not an occupation if to speak legally. As well as the Latvian guards - with other Baltids - won the Bolshevik revolution.

On the other hand Russian Empire bought the Baltic States from Sweden. And all the Baltic States became "independent" when the Germans occupied them in WW1. Actually they used to be German puppets. So, their separation and independence from the Empire were illegal.

[member]

So what? The Soviet inner market used to be rather rich. Actually the East Bloc had a more powerfull economical potential then the West.

On the other hand, the Soviet production was of good quality, even in 1991 a lot of Soviet equipment and machines were sold in Western Europe and other developed countries.

Look at Transistria, they have only old Soviet factories with a bit outdated equipment but they EXPORT their production to Europe (Germany, Italy etc.)

And Belarus exports a lot of good equipment too.

But you -Lithuanians- destroyed everything and live on debts from Brussels. That's silly.



LOL. The modern Baltic States are bankrupts. You have no work, factories and industry, your youth is living the country and became despised "slaves" and "Polish plumbers" in the West. No doubt, the life conditions were better in the USSR.

People started living poorer after the occupation. It was very noticeable. Together with mass deportations.

The best factories were built in Baltic states. But even here many produced things didn't match quality. Onle a small part of produced goods matched requirements.


You have no idea about life cinditions in SU.

People had very narrow choise of goods. Many goods that are now usual things were only available through special contacts. You can't even image how narrow the choise of goods were.

We are not bankrupt.

[sevruk]

You don't understand. These countries would have achieved not less if not probably more without the "help" of SU.

"would have" "would have" this is bullshit
problem Lithuanians (Latvians, Estonians, Poles) is that you are living in the past

[Anusiya]

"would have" "would have" this is bullshit
problem Lithuanians (Latvians, Estonians, Poles) is that you are living in the past

I don't think that Poles live that much in the past. They in fact are doing some hearty efforts too. I don't know about the Baltics that much.

[sevruk]

I don't think that Poles live that much in the past. They in fact are doing some hearty efforts too. I don't know about the Baltics that much.

Poles also regularly recall the Soviet past, but even so they are more adequate

[Hochmeister]

This is Lithuania in 1920's




She lost her capital Wilno (Vilnius), which was occupied by Poland. Memel (Klaipeda) was in Germany

And compare it with the modern post-Soviet Lithuanian map:




Vilnius is back. Klaipeda (Memel) is Lithuanian. It was done for Lithuania by the evil Soviet occupants.

That's so disgusting to watch Lithuanian rusophobia.

[Anusiya]

Poles also regularly recall the Soviet past, but even so they are more adequate

Well, I think they have some right to recall it. They didn't have the best of party times between the two of you.

[member]

The Baltic States used to be among the poorest countries in Europe in 1930's.
And there was no an occupation. Since every occupation does ligally mean an armed conflict and a storm of a capital.
There was a lot of Lithuanins who supported the Soviets. I'd say 50/50. That's why there was no an armed conflict (compare it with the Soviet -Finnisg war). That was not an occupation if to speak legally. As well as the Latvian guards - with other Baltids - won the Bolshevik revolution.

On the other hand Russian Empire bought the Baltic States from Sweden. And all the Baltic States became "independent" when the Germans occupied them in WW1. Actually they used to be German puppets. So, their separation and independence from the Empire were illegal.

You can not compare these areas with let's say Germany, but..the start was very good.

And there was no an occupation. Since every occupation does ligally mean an armed conflict and a storm of a capital.
There was a lot of Lithuanins who supported the Soviets. I'd say 50/50. That's why there was no an armed conflict (compare it with the Soviet -Finnisg war). That was not an occupation if to speak legally. As well as the Latvian guards - with other Baltids - won the Bolshevik revolution.

Ridiculous. President A. Smetona didn't inform and refused to use military power because Lithuania would have lost anyway, SU was a lot stronger. How silly to compare tiny Lithuania with huge SU.

There weren't a lot of Lithuanians who supported SU due to previously introduced agriculture reform. People had their own land and simply there was no need to support people telling they're being used unlike in Russia.

This is how it happened:

Once the Winter War in Finland was over and Germany was making rapid advances against Denmark and Norway and against France and the Low Countries, the Soviets heightened their diplomatic pressure on Lithuania, culminating in the Soviet ultimatum to Lithuania of June 1940. The ultimatum demanded the formation a new pro-Soviet government and admission of an unspecified number of Russian troops. Lithuania accepted the ultimatum as effective military resistance was impossible with Soviet troops already within the country according to the Mutual Assistance Pact.* President Antanas Smetona left Lithuania as the Soviet military forces (15 divisions with 150,000 soldiers) crossed the Lithuanian border on June 15, 1940. As the Soviet Union occupied and annexed Lithuania in accordance with the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact,[61][62] Lithuania lost its independence.
Soviet troops marching into Lithuania (June 1940)

Soviet representative Vladimir Dekanozov formed the new pro-Soviet puppet government, known as the People's Government. Justas Paleckis replaced Smetona as the acting President of Lithuania. The new government was a rubber stamp institution, carrying out orders from Moscow. The Fourth Seimas was disbanded and new show elections to the so-called People's Seimas were organized on July 14–15, 1940. With only Communist-approved candidates running, official results showed over 90% of voter turnout and support for the Communists. During its first session on July 21 the People's Seimas unanimously decided to convert Lithuania into the Lithuanian SSR and petition to join the Soviet Union. The petition was approved by the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union on August 3, which completed the formalization of the occupation.

*It was signed because SU required to do it otherwise - war.


It was occupation because people didn't agree but as I said military actions from Lithuanian side coudln't change the result.

By the way, it's incorrect to say that there were no military actions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Brothers

The Forest Brothers (also Brothers of the Forest; Forest Brethren; Forest Brotherhood; Estonian: metsavennad, Latvian: meža brāļi, Lithuanian: miško broliai) were Estonian, Latvian, and Lithuanian partisans who waged a guerrilla war against Soviet rule during the Soviet invasion and occupation of the three Baltic states during, and after, World War II. Similar anti-Soviet Eastern European resistance groups fought against Soviet and communist rule in Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, Croatia and western Ukraine.

Among the three countries, the resistance was best organized in Lithuania, where guerrilla units controlled whole regions of the countryside until 1949.

On the other hand Russian Empire bought the Baltic States from Sweden. And all the Baltic States became "independent" when the Germans occupied them in WW1. Actually they used to be German puppets. So, their separation and independence from the Empire were illegal.

What? Lithuanian-Polish commonwealth (inckuding Latgale) was portitioned by Russia, Austria and Prussia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland
And what did you mean bought from Sweden? They went through war.
Baltic states were occupied by Germany in WW1, for some time and yes, it was a time of opression.

What do you mean illegal? By today's standarts nothing's illegal if it's done in undemoctratic way (without people's agreement).

[member]

This is Lithuania in 1920's




She lost her capital Wilno (Vilnius), which was occupied by Poland. Memel (Klaipeda) was in Germany

And compare it with the modern post-Soviet Lithuanian map:




Vilnius is back. Klaipeda (Memel) is Lithuanian. It was done for Lithuania by the evil Soviet occupants.

That's so disgusting to watch Lithuanian rusophobia.

Conditions of Mutual Assistance Pact of the year 1939:

1) Lithuania sings the treaty allowing SU to keep military crews in Lithuania and gets back Vilnius land.
2) does not sign the treaty and goes into war against SU.

What kind of fool are you to say that Vilnius land was just gifted to Lithuania. They gave back Vilnius land but occupied whole Lithuania.

[member]

"would have" "would have" this is bullshit
problem Lithuanians (Latvians, Estonians, Poles) is that you are living in the past

This is not bullshit because it showed our potential.

So you think living in the past means objective evaluation of the past?

you talk about schools, but forget that they helped to raise homo sovieticus. we didn't need such schools. we only wanted to do things our own way in our own lands, is it so hard for you to comprehend it?