View Poll Results: Who influenced worse Rousseau or Marx?

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  • Rousseau

    4 36.36%
  • Marx

    6 54.55%
  • Both in equal measure

    1 9.09%
  • I think they are cool.

    0 0%
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Thread: Who influenced worse Rousseau or Marx?

  1. #1
    Galantuomo
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    Default Who influenced worse Rousseau or Marx?

    Come on people, I listen to your opinions in favour and against.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cristiano viejo View Post
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    Marx is a consequence of Rousseau, but Marx arguably has more direct influence on our modern Western reality. Political correctness, social liberalism and most of the other cancers who will be ultimately responsible for the collapse of the West in the near future are derivations (by Gramsci, Frankfurt school and the likes) from Marx's baseless and psychopatic social theories.

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    French style liberals (better to call them radicals, progressives, modern republicans). Nasty.
    Rousseau, Concoderet, Thomas Paine, Priestley. Just early versions of the far left. I would probably put Jefferson and Spinoza in this grouping here maybe.
    These people favored revolution, anticleric views, and hostile to religion and conservative. rationalists in general.

    English style liberals (now wrongly called conservative by some). they were empiricist.
    Smith, Burke, Hume, Montesquei, Tocqueville are more acceptable but still they were a problem to actual conservatives.
    Only acceptable ones were were national liberals and unionists (they added some social conservativism to their classical liberalism)

    Marx is just a theorist, his "scientific marxism" isnt scientific.
    Overrated, critic of capitalism is okay, his solutions suck.
    His ideas were perverted by many Communists in the future.

    What can I say? I dont like leftists. Hell most of today moderates and many American "conservatives"/Republicans are just leftists of yesterday.

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    Marx, but Communism/marxism is idiotic just like anarchism because both try to repeal a law of nature or at least a virtual law of nature. Any philosophy that tries to repeal a law of nature is doom to failure as we have seen everywhere Communism has been tried. The law that Communists try to repeal is that people work for reward and the more reward they get the harder they work. Efforts by Hegelians and Marxists to create a socialist utopia without incentives to work and produce, any private property, or possibility for profit are, by the nature of human action, doomed to failure. :

    “Egoism [self-interest]… will never be argued out of a person, as little as a cat can be talked out of her inclination for mice.”--Schopenhauer



    The antidote to Communism and Socialism is Schopenhauer. Most people are influenced by Hegel , instead of Schopenhauer, because I feel Schopenhauer was a greater genius so it is hard for people to understand or get their head around Schopenhauer even though he was lucid as f*ck in his writings. In contrast Hegel was opaque or not-lucid at all in his writings but people claim to understand Hegel more because most people are not 'smart'. Philosophers like Hegel who construct systems that encompass the Noumenon do so with what are essentially meaningless abstract concepts, like “Absolute Spirit,” “The Good,” and “Perfection of Being.”

    “The greatest effrontery [to Kant] in serving up sheer nonsense, in scrabbling together senseless and maddening webs of words, such as had previously been heard only in madhouses, finally appeared in Hegel.” --Schopenhauer

    Hegel’s reply would probably be, “So what if I generate a lot of verbiage without really saying anything ? Only power matters."

    sample: England
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoon View Post
    French style liberals (better to call them radicals, progressives, modern republicans). Nasty.
    Rousseau, Concoderet, Thomas Paine, Priestley. Just early versions of the far left. I would probably put Jefferson and Spinoza in this grouping here maybe.
    These people favored revolution, anticleric views, and hostile to religion and conservative. rationalists in general.

    English style liberals (now wrongly called conservative by some). they were empiricist.
    Smith, Burke, Hume, Montesquei, Tocqueville are more acceptable but still they were a problem to actual conservatives.
    Only acceptable ones were were national liberals and unionists (they added some social conservativism to their classical liberalism)

    Marx is just a theorist, his "scientific marxism" isnt scientific.
    Overrated, critic of capitalism is okay, his solutions suck.
    His ideas were perverted by many Communists in the future.

    What can I say? I dont like leftists. Hell most of today moderates and many American "conservatives"/Republicans are just leftists of yesterday.
    You say you're agnostic. You would prefer the Catholic Church hierarchy control your life ?


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    Rousseau. The "equality" and "innate human goodness" dogmas are the cornerstones for everything that is bad and awful in this world right now. Oh, another related one derived from those is the "noble savage" one.

    IMHO, Machiavelli was right about human beings being innately wicked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Óttar View Post
    You say you're agnostic. You would prefer the Catholic Church hierarchy control your life ?
    This is hard for me to answer. (sorry but a tough topic on belief systems for private reasons)

    Perhaps they should have more place in society, politics and more role in life if these institutions were like 100+ years ago.
    However, because today life is different and these institutions have changed negatively its hard to say yes.

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    Both. Marx's outlook was too cold, materialistic and one-eyed, while Rousseau was too romantic and naive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andullero View Post
    Rousseau. The "equality" and "innate human goodness" dogmas are the cornerstones for everything that is bad and awful in this world right now. Oh, another related one derived from those is the "noble savage" one.

    IMHO, Machiavelli was right about human beings being innately wicked.
    Oh NO.
    If you (as a dictator) think that everyone is wicked and rule accordingly, everyone is going to be.
    If you trust in mankind's inherent moral goodness, chances are that at least a minority is going to behave as good persons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Both. Marx's outlook was too cold, materialistic and one-eyed, while Rousseau was too romantic and naive.
    Marx is pure evil. But he was influential thanks to his incredible writing talent (the most powerful polemical prose German literature has ever produced).
    I like Rousseau much better.
    And take notice that he can be seen as the father of ethnic democracy.
    He explicitly wrote that real democracy could work only within a community sharing the same culture, same records, and same references.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouistreham View Post
    Oh NO.
    If you (as a dictator) think that everyone is wicked and rule accordingly, everyone is going to be.
    If you trust in mankind's inherent moral goodness, chances are that at least a minority is going to behave as good persons.


    Marx is pure evil. But he was influential thanks to his incredible writing talent (the most powerful polemical prose German literature has ever produced).
    I like Rousseau much better.
    And take notice that he can be seen as the father of ethnic democracy.
    He explicitly wrote that real democracy could work only within a community sharing the same culture, same records, and same references.
    Rousseau's ideas of "the collective will" and "forcing people to be free" were very totalitarian. And believing that humans have a tendency to be bad was a major motivation behind the US Constitution, since the country's founders believed that politicians needed their power to be severely constrained in order to precisely minimise the risk of abuse.

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