Kaspias Big Y Result

[Kaspias]

An update here,

A Karachay listed under BZ181. He claims for Istanbul(Balkan Turkish?) origin for his great-grandfather. That claim appears in autosomal DNA, too.



I find it fantastic that although his SNP is prolly mutated in the first expansion, around Altay Mountains as explained below, and mine as well as Bulgarian's in the second expansion in the Tian Shan, we're all ended up in the same region as descendants of these brothers after around 2500 years.

I can pretty much draw the migration route of our ancestors with current information. But I can not name under what name they migrated. It could be Hun, Bulgar, Kipchak, Pecheneg, Avar, or a more recent input, Tatar. You can make your own conclusion considering the odds.

[Zoltan]

I’m glad your test is finally done and uploaded to YFull! The descendants of YP771 were all Scythians and Huns. Our ancestors were relatives

[Kaspias]

Yfull updated the tree, and I received my age estimation. TMRCA is 1250 (550<->2400) ybp by my line only. Note that I also match in terms of STRs with YF81155 in the same range(~1100 years.) He has additional mutated SNPs though, which confuses me.


Besides, it has been very interesting for me the last three months, recent articles supplied ancient samples that have exact same clade as I.

Q-F15008(F16045)

Distance to:	Hun_DA20
0.02432736	Mogush
0.02521092	Buryat
0.02594845	Khamnegan
0.02673444	Tuvinian
0.02749364	Altaian
0.02817352	Khakass_Kachins

Distance to:	Hun_KBO001
0.02022033	Mogush
0.02059933	Buryat
0.02181101	Tuvinian
0.02293892	Altaian
0.02323906	Khamnegan
0.02328055	Khakass_Kachins

Distance to:	Mongolia_MLBA_I13767
0.02063449	Khakass
0.02426226	Khakass_Kachins
0.02446515	Shor
0.02668311	Tubalar
0.02759778	Mogush
0.02783987	Shor_Mountain

Distance to:	Pazyryk_BRE002
0.01858344	Buryat
0.02075905	Khamnegan
0.02136258	Altaian
0.02155638	Mogush
0.02172014	Kalmyk
0.02191979	Mongolian

Also a clade above, FT421589.

Distance to:	Altay_MLBA_I6348
0.02482516	Shor_Mountain
0.02527780	Shor_Khakassia
0.02535294	Shor
0.02615884	Khakass
0.02722988	Tubalar
0.03550778	Khakass_Kachins

The meta clade BZ180 has many other samples.

Distance to:	Altay_MLBA_I13174
0.02377063	Shor
0.02580176	Shor_Mountain
0.02756609	Khakass
0.02780434	Shor_Khakassia
0.02919042	Tubalar
0.03615974	Khakass_Kachins


Distance to:	Mongolia_MLBA_I13766
0.02398716	Altaian
0.02524540	Khakass
0.02549516	Khakass_Kachins
0.02682791	Tubalar
0.02711430	Mogush
0.02921945	Tuvinian


Distance to:	Altay_MLBA_ARS005
0.01981393	Altaian
0.02020377	Khakass_Kachins
0.02374307	Mogush
0.02582570	Khakass
0.02598346	Tuvinian
0.02891631	Mongolian

Distance to:	Altay_MLBA_ARS004
0.02358555	Khakass_Kachins
0.02373007	Altaian
0.02746409	Khakass
0.02792599	Mogush
0.03030640	Tuvinian
0.03057349	Tubalar

Distance to:	Altay_MLBA_ARS001
0.02442359	Khakass
0.02530642	Mogush
0.02546825	Altaian
0.02654769	Tuvinian
0.02798818	Khakass_Kachins
0.02914807	Shor

Distance to:	Slab_Grave_EIA_I6359
0.02585904	Altaian
0.02652760	Khakass
0.02718206	Khakass_Kachins
0.02794259	Tubalar
0.02930064	Shor
0.03034197	Mogush

Distance to:	Sarmatian_Caspian_DA141
0.02794339	Tajik_Rushan
0.02836433	Tajik_Shugnan
0.03211310	Tajik_Ishkashim
0.03291854	Tajik_Yagnobi
0.03419231	Tajik
0.03813171	Tabasaran

Distance to:	Early_Xiongnu_SKT007
0.02286956	Khakass
0.02446781	Shor
0.02593362	Tubalar
0.02687298	Khakass_Kachins
0.02724038	Mogush
0.02876042	Altaian

Distance to:	Late_Xiongnu_BTO001
0.02001926	Kazakh_China
0.02237718	Kalmyk
0.02240927	Mongolian
0.02258905	Kirghiz_China
0.02312507	Kirghiz
0.02529478	Altaian

All these samples are exactly the same parallel as Turkic expansion, from the proto form to medieval. Altay MLBA comes out as the deepest origin and shows some interactions with Khovsgol. However, the contact with Mongols takes place when Slab Grave culture started to expand.



The interaction of Steppe MLBA and Altay MLBA leads the forming of Pazyryk and Uyuk cultures, where the Eastern Scythian culture also will appear. At that stage, the haplogroup seems to be prominent in the region, from Pazyryk to Slab Grave.



The presence of the clade within Sarmatians may point out mutual assimilations between Turks and Sarmatians. Besides, we see that many Huns with that clade which point out the transformation of Uyuk and Pazyryk to Xiongnu/Hun that started a great mobilization in the region and led L330 to spread beyond the Altay Mountains.

One thing here is the clade probably went into a bottleneck in the early middle ages as well as medieval which is why L330 is rare today as well as why have not seen in any medieval samples yet. Due to this, we do not know with whom it was carried to the Balkans, therefore could not draw a certain route. However, the earlier periods are pretty imaginable:

Siberia Cis Baykal(?) -> Altay MLBA -> Pazyryk/Uyuk/Sagly -> Xiongnu/Hun -> Turkic Khanate