How come Portuguese in many ways is more similar to French than is Spanish?

[gixajo]

Well the point is that it is surprising, given how France borders Spain but not Portugal.

Old Castillian phonetics were different form nowadays Castillian, in the past Castillian was more rich phonetically, and closer to Portuguese pronunciation.

In medieval timest, different variants of Romance languages coexisted, and the pronunciation varied depending zones.

The pronunciation of one of the variants influenced by Basque is the one that became the majority.

The Galician language spoken at present is , for example, similar in many aspects to Portuguese, but phonetically is closer to that Basque-influenced Castillian.

Portuguese is not influenced by French, simply it shares a similar phonetic richness, because being a political body different from Spain for most of its history, it was able to maintain that richness.

[Tooting Carmen]

Old Castillian phonetics were different form nowadays Castillian, in the past Castillian was more rich phonetically, and closer to Portuguese pronunciation.

In medieval timest, different variants of Romance languages coexisted, and the pronunciation varied depending zones.

The pronunciation of one of the variants influenced by Basque is the one that became the majority.

The Galician language spoken at present is , for example, similar in many aspects to Portuguese, but phonetically is closer to that Basque-influenced Castillian.

Portuguese is not influenced by French, simply it shares a similar phonetic richness, because being a political body different from Spain for most of its history, it was able to maintain that richness.

Source for all this?

[Diego Garcia]

Despite the fact that France and Spain share a long border whereas Portugal is nowhere near France, I find that Portuguese can often be more similar to French than Spanish is. Some examples:

- General nasal vowel sounds.
- Countries have a definite article placed in front of them, e.g. 'la France', 'le Bresil' > 'a Franca', 'o Brasil'.
- Words ending in 'l' have it omitted in its plural form, e.g. 'les journaux nationaux' > 'os jornais nacionais'.
- Possessive pronouns relate to the object, e.g. 'mon', 'ma', 'son', 'sa' > 'meu', 'minha', 'seu', 'sua'.
- Words starting with 'h' in Spanish often start with 'f' in the other two, e.g. 'hijo', 'hija', 'hacer', 'hierro', 'harina'
> 'fils', 'fille', 'faire', 'fer', 'farine' > 'filho', 'filha', 'fazer', 'ferro', 'farina'.

What explains all this?

Well, it's complex.

But maybe because Castilian --the language from which Spanish directly derives-- surged with a huge influence of the Basque. As a matter of fact, first texts in Old Castilian were found in current basque provinces. The few vocal sounds --a, e, i, o, u-- in comparison with the more ample presentation of vocalic sounds in the other romance languages, the strong consonantic sounds (as the strong j sound in spanish, the strong rolling r...) , the disparition of the initial f sound, the fact of no differentiation between the /b/ and /v/ sounds etc. All of them are basque influences into the castilian language.

Some scholars are even of the opinion that Castilian ---and thus Spanish-- was a sort of a latinised basque, in fact.

[Ygsi]

In terms of phonetics, Portuguese sounds Slavicized.

[Ouistreham]

Despite the fact that France and Spain share a long border whereas Portugal is nowhere near France, I find that Portuguese can often be more similar to French than Spanish is. Some examples:

- General nasal vowel sounds.
- Countries have a definite article placed in front of them, e.g. 'la France', 'le Bresil' > 'a Franca', 'o Brasil'.
- Words ending in 'l' have it omitted in its plural form, e.g. 'les journaux nationaux' > 'os jornais nacionais'.
- Possessive pronouns relate to the object, e.g. 'mon', 'ma', 'son', 'sa' > 'meu', 'minha', 'seu', 'sua'.
- Words starting with 'h' in Spanish often start with 'f' in the other two, e.g. 'hijo', 'hija', 'hacer', 'hierro', 'harina'
> 'fils', 'fille', 'faire', 'fer', 'farine' > 'filho', 'filha', 'fazer', 'ferro', 'farina'.

None of those factors is structurally significant.

And as for possessive pronouns, Portuguese follows the Italian model with possessives being combined with a definite article ("il mio, la nostra" = "o meu, a nossa"). I think that Catalan and Provençal varieties of Occitan also do.

BTW, the Italians use to drop the initial article when referring to members of their family (they say "il mio paese" but simply "mia madre") ; would be interesting to check if the Portugueses do the same.

In short, I think the most sensible representation is that there used to be a Southern Romance continuum linking Portuguese to Italian at both ends, and that it was at some point broken by the powerful expansion of Basque-influenced Castilian in Central Spain.

Well, it's complex.

But maybe because Castilian --the language from which Spanish directly derives-- surged with a huge influence of the Basque. As a matter of fact, first texts in Old Castilian were found in current basque provinces. The few vocal sounds --a, e, i, o, u-- in comparison with the more ample presentation of vocalic sounds in the other romance languages, the strong consonantic sounds (as the strong j sound in spanish, the strong rolling r...) , the disparition of the initial f sound, the fact of no differentiation between the /b/ and /v/ sounds etc. All of them are basque influences into the castilian language.

Some scholars are even of the opinion that Castilian ---and thus Spanish-- was a sort of a latinised basque, in fact.

Yep, it sums it up.

In terms of phonetics, Portuguese sounds Slavicized.

... and Spanish sounds like Greek, weirdly
(more exactly: Greek sounds like a con language invented by Spaniards)

[SineNomine]

Romance languages such as central Italian and Castilian are just more conservative - fewer phonological changes. Portuguese, French, and Romanian are more innovative, most sound shifts.

Couldn't one say the same with Slavic. Russian and Serbian are not geographically close, but seem to be more like Old Church Slavonic, Polish and to a lesser degree Bulgarian seem to have more sound changes. I don't really know Slavic languages well, but it just seems like some retain more of the older Slavic sounds, others tend to shift more.

[Damião de Góis]

Despite the fact that France and Spain share a long border whereas Portugal is nowhere near France, I find that Portuguese can often be more similar to French than Spanish is. Some examples:

- General nasal vowel sounds.
- Countries have a definite article placed in front of them, e.g. 'la France', 'le Bresil' > 'a Franca', 'o Brasil'.
- Words ending in 'l' have it omitted in its plural form, e.g. 'les journaux nationaux' > 'os jornais nacionais'.
- Possessive pronouns relate to the object, e.g. 'mon', 'ma', 'son', 'sa' > 'meu', 'minha', 'seu', 'sua'.
- Words starting with 'h' in Spanish often start with 'f' in the other two, e.g. 'hijo', 'hija', 'hacer', 'hierro', 'harina'
> 'fils', 'fille', 'faire', 'fer', 'farine' > 'filho', 'filha', 'fazer', 'ferro', 'farina'.

What explains all this?

Dennis Farina?

[Tooting Carmen]

Dennis Farina?

Desculpo, eu queria dizer 'farinha'.

[Damião de Góis]

Desculpo, eu queria dizer 'farinha'.

Eu desculpe.