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Thread: Uniqueness of the Basques

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    They might not want to answer, considering how simplistic the modelling with ancient populations is. Murcians didn't have any valid models either, which is very odd.

    Here's one of the elephants in the room:
    Even if we ignore how outdated models with just these 3 pops are, and how Sardinians appear extremely similar to Tuscans, while carrying ~18% Steppe and Spaniards ~40%, they do show Basques as having less Steppe ancestry than Spaniards...then where did it come from, considering Spaniards are only "half" IA Iberia and ancient Romans had less than their Iberian contemporaries? They don't even try to explain it, they just placed those graphs in the body of the text and voilà. It would have helped if they actually said what these Roman samples were like, but again nothing. It's just a poorly made thing.

    Incorrect map

    Sardinians have more WHG, like nuragh, and less levant neolithic, iran farmer (tuscan have)

    >>>


    pre and post-Nuraghi





    WHG percentage with the different samples (Sardinians, Northern italians, central and south samples), 8 to 14%:

  2. #42
    Moleiros do Alto Dão Ruderico's Avatar
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    That's the point, that graph was taken from the study itself and the values are clearly off. Their population models are overall quite poor.
    That said I don't fully trust G25 to make these sort of models with very ancient populations either
    Ó, anciã, Mãe! Nossa mágoa é eterna
    Foste esquecida, perdida
    Vossa glória, vossa honra, banida
    Mas vosso canto prevalece no fogo e na névoa agreste.
    Destronada e abandonada,
    Por bastardos humilhada,
    Ao esquecimento lançada.
    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset close up plot

  3. #43
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    Basque having less steppe than Spain is correct but they should show more WHG than anybody else, beyond what was captured by the ANF. Also Sardinians should score like ten times less Steppe than Tuscans. Even my 10 minutes calculator can show striking differences between Sardinians and Tuscans, and Basque or Spain.



    Target: Tuscan
    Distance: 0.9106% / 0.91063377
    58.1 Anatolian_NeolithicFarmer
    34.4 Steppe_EMBA
    7.5 Iranian_NeolithicFarmer

    Target: Sardinian
    Distance: 0.4554% / 0.45538645
    73.7 Anatolian_NeolithicFarmer
    13.8 Villabruna_WestHunterGatherer
    9.4 Iranian_NeolithicFarmer
    3.0 Steppe_EMBA
    0.1 Taforalt_AncientNorthAfrica

    Target: Basque
    Distance: 0.4252% / 0.42518955
    55.9 Anatolian_NeolithicFarmer
    21.8 Steppe_EMBA
    20.6 Villabruna_WestHunterGatherer
    1.7 Iranian_NeolithicFarmer


    Target: Spanish
    Distance: 0.5394% / 0.53940900
    56.0 Anatolian_NeolithicFarmer
    27.7 Steppe_EMBA
    11.9 Villabruna_WestHunterGatherer
    2.5 Iranian_NeolithicFarmer
    1.1 Mota_AncientEastAfrica
    0.8 Taforalt_AncientNorthAfrica

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petalpusher View Post
    Basque having less steppe than Spain is correct but they should show more WHG than anybody else, beyond what was captured by the ANF. Also Sardinians should score like ten times less Steppe than Tuscans. Even my 10 minutes calculator can show striking differences between Sardinians and Tuscans, and Basque or Spain.



    Target: Tuscan
    Distance: 0.9106% / 0.91063377
    58.1 Anatolian_NeolithicFarmer
    34.4 Steppe_EMBA
    7.5 Iranian_NeolithicFarmer

    Target: Sardinian
    Distance: 0.4554% / 0.45538645
    73.7 Anatolian_NeolithicFarmer
    13.8 Villabruna_WestHunterGatherer
    9.4 Iranian_NeolithicFarmer
    3.0 Steppe_EMBA
    0.1 Taforalt_AncientNorthAfrica

    Target: Basque
    Distance: 0.4252% / 0.42518955
    55.9 Anatolian_NeolithicFarmer
    21.8 Steppe_EMBA
    20.6 Villabruna_WestHunterGatherer
    1.7 Iranian_NeolithicFarmer


    Target: Spanish
    Distance: 0.5394% / 0.53940900
    56.0 Anatolian_NeolithicFarmer
    27.7 Steppe_EMBA
    11.9 Villabruna_WestHunterGatherer
    2.5 Iranian_NeolithicFarmer
    1.1 Mota_AncientEastAfrica
    0.8 Taforalt_AncientNorthAfrica


    Your modelization is not correct, Sardinians (central) don't have this iran thing.

    Je ne comprends pas pourquoi tu persistes avec ton truc à la ramasse, même mon père en obtient alors qu'il n'en a pas sur le Global 25 (plus fiable) et aucun sarde n'en a sur le Global 25 avec les populations ancestrales classiques.

    Je viendrais toujours corriger les gens ici, c'est un devoir quand les informations sont erronées ou imprécises.

    Je vais te la montrer beaucoup de fois cette image, jusqu'à temps que tu imprimes cela dans ton crâne.

  5. #45
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    They should, and they do in academic samples

    "We observed clear signals of dynamic periods of contact linking the island to the rest of the Mediterranean, appearing first in individuals from two Phoenician and Punic sites as early as 500 BCE, and then in individuals from the Roman and Medieval periods,"
    "We found striking stability in ancestry from the Middle Neolithic through the end of the Nuragic period in Sardinia," said Joe Marcus, a PhD student in the Department of Human Genetics at UChicago and a co-first author on the paper.
    Second, the team found evidence of the arrival of different populations across the Mediterranean, first with Phoenicians originating from the Levant (modern-day Lebanon) and Punics, whose culture centered in Carthage (modern-day Tunisia)."
    Then, new ancestry continued to appear during the Roman period and further in the Medieval period, as Sardinia became historically influenced by migration of people from modern-day Italy and Spain.
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...ieval%20period.
    Last to date studies about Sardinians show them with that type of signal in barchart too.

    Those people near BCE were highly Iran_N. Not my fault G25 can't sort this out only lumping everything into some 6000BC farmers, when clearly the genesis of the island continued much further in time. Even the K13/K15, which are still reference calculators, show Sardinians as having sizeable "EastMed/Red sea stuff". Also extremely dumb to use many Iran_n samples, some Kura axes and what not, it's never gonna be sorting things properly with all that.

    Now this is about Basque, so let's not derail this thread with your Sardinian obession. The real issue here was Tuscan appearing the same as Sardinians, which obviously isn't right and only shows the model is very poor in general.
    Last edited by Petalpusher; 04-16-2021 at 02:08 PM.

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    FlashBack/Dududud & Petalpusher, if you post the sources of your models, we could try them also.

    Avez-vous déjà trouvé le composant français unique avec l´aide des experts d´Anthrogenica Dududud?

    Dans une future update (mise à jour?) de 23andME ou MH, ils incluront ce composant, ne souffrez pas pour cela.

    Salut une autre fois Petalpusher, I thought you were Polish and not French...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post

    Salut une autre fois Petalpusher, I thought you were Polish and not French...
    Hehe at least, you didn't think it was Indonesia J'ai entendu ca une ou deux fois.


    Besides i should clear up that 10% Iran_N with close to no Steppe would actually be very low, likely in the lowest tier for Europe as Steppe is made of something very similar, so it won't show for most of us scoring a lot of Steppe but it exists in most of us. You can only show the excess with a Steppe component, eventually. Yes admixture is complicated.

    Sardinia is still very much a good early neo proxy, with some local hunter gatherers and a bit of more recent influences, which shouldn't come as a surprise, being an island in the middle of the mediterranean sea. An interesting combination of both isolation and relative attractiveness for sailors going around the area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petalpusher View Post
    Hehe at least, you didn't think it was Indonesia J'ai entendu ca une ou deux fois.


    Besides i should clear up that 10% Iran_N with close to no Steppe would actually be very low, likely in the lowest tier for Europe as Steppe is made of something very similar, so it won't show for most of us scoring a lot of Steppe but it exists in most of us. You can only show the excess with a Steppe component, eventually. Yes admixture is complicated.

    Sardinia is still very much a good early neo proxy, with some local hunter gatherers and a bit of more recent influences, which shouldn't come as a surprise, being an island in the middle of the mediterranean sea. An interesting combination of both isolation and relative attractiveness for sailors going around the area.
    La zone centrale est relativement pure.

    Je vais modéliser d'autres samples sardes, tu verras bien.

    la seule zone "autochtone" est Barbagia, le reste...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gixajo View Post
    FlashBack/Dududud & Petalpusher, if you post the sources of your models, we could try them also.

    Avez-vous déjà trouvé le composant français unique avec l´aide des experts d´Anthrogenica Dududud?

    Dans une future update (mise à jour?) de 23andME ou MH, ils incluront ce composant, ne souffrez pas pour cela.

    Salut une autre fois Petalpusher, I thought you were Polish and not French...
    Le composant français, oui.

    J'ai énormément de samples français de souche (race française, pur sang, pas andalou).

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