Trying to understand how mutations work !

[Badr madani]

1) How long does it take for a mutation to occur on ydna ?

2) if my ancestors came from middle east 800 years ago with haplogroup j1 , does this haplogroup mutate over time to present day to a new number of the same letter j or it mutates to a totally new haplogroup like E ?

[Petalpusher]

J doesn't mutate in E, they are like 40ky apart. You will be J or E for the rest of you paternal line, until new sub mutations have occured or will occur. That doesn't mean your paternal lineage hasn't intermingled with E's and other haplogroups (that is for sure actually) but only through your maternal sides. That means through the wives of your fathers, that obviously had fathers too, with different Y. This is also why you shouldn't base much on your Y, it defines only a fraction of what you are, a very tiny one indeed.

The rate of mutations vary, there are slow and fast paced markers. We are still talking one in hundreds of generations generally, between 1/200 and 1/800 as a rough idea.

[Badr madani]

J doesn't mutate in E, they are like 40ky apart. You will be J or E for the rest of you paternal line, until new sub mutations have occured or will occur. That doesn't mean your paternal lineage hasn't intermingled with E's and other haplogroups (that is for sure actually) but only through your maternal sides. That means through the wives of your fathers, that obviously had fathers too, with different Y. This is also why you shouldn't base much on your Y, it defines only a fraction of what you are, a very tiny one indeed.

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So you are saying that even if my haplogroup is middle eastern i may still be considered north african if my male ancestors intermingled mostly with berber females.

I mean middle easterners wont acknowledge me as theirs ?

[Rethel]

So you are saying that even if my haplogroup is middle eastern i may still be considered north african if my male ancestors intermingled mostly with berber females.

It depends on what you understand as North African. Hamite? Berber? Maghrebi Arab? Or just an inhabitant of Northern Africa?

[Badr madani]

It depends on what you understand as North African. Hamite? Berber? Maghrebi Arab? Or just an inhabitant of Northern Africa?

Well thats my problem i dont know how to categorize myself .

My ancestors are from banu hilal who invaded north africa in 12th century AD.

[Rethel]

Well thats my problem i dont know how to categorize myself.

Why?

My ancestors are from banu hilal who invaded north africa in 12th century AD.

How do you know that?
Because the whole group where you live considers itself as such,
or you can proof it in your own case genealogically in straight line?

[Badr madani]

Why?



How do you know that?
Because the whole group where you live considers itself as such,
or you can proof it in your own case genealogically in straight line?

Do you think a familytreeDNA y-dna test will answer my questions . I see that 23andme is more generalized and not accurate.

[Rethel]

Do you think a familytreeDNA y-dna test will answer my questions . I see that 23andme is more generalized and not accurate.

To answer that, I have to know, what I had been asking thee for.

[Petalpusher]

So you are saying that even if my haplogroup is middle eastern i may still be considered north african if my male ancestors intermingled mostly with berber females.

Yes.

I mean middle easterners wont acknowledge me as theirs ?

People wont acknowledge shit based on ydnas they don't know a single thing about.

[Rethel]

People wont acknowledge shit based on ydnas they don't know a single thing about.

But if someone will tell them a lie: "I am Hilal migrant from Hijaz, living in Morocco" they'll do. So, better, if it is a truth, don't you think?