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Thread: Africans = no Prophet = Why ???

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    Default African Spiritual perspectives

    Quote Originally Posted by Hektor12 View Post
    Africa is the oldest place of humanity, but there was no prophet coming from there. And there wasnt any monoteistic religions, too. Why they had no prophets to teach them about the god, but only Semites had prophet? Why the mighty god didnt talk to africans ever?
    The issue here is that you're looking at the issue through an Abrahamic and Western lens. Personally, I'm not religious at all. I think we're evolving past the need for such things. However, I do have friends who do practice traditional African systems. I live in the North East and there is quite a large representation of people who follow Yoruba derived traditions from Brazil and Cuba. But you also find growing numbers in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico as well as Afro Americans who wanted to follow a tradition that was connected to their ancestors. There are still traditionalists in Nigeria and they are gaining followers in these communities as well now that regular travel is possible.

    There are numerous African traditions, but the common denominator is none of them are exclusivist in nature, meaning, they don't believe that there is only one way to worship the creator, hence no need for evangelizing. Basically, they are monotheistic in nature because they believe that there's only one creator, or god. In the Yoruba traditions the creator is known as O-lo-du-ma-re. they also believe that each person has a higher self which is a spark of the creator. Next in importance are the venerated ancestors and then spiritual beings known as O-re-sha. These aren't gods, but more like venerated ancestors, closer to saints, or primordial manifestations of nature who are charged with helping humans fulfill their destinies on Earth.

    They believe that each human being chooses to come to Earth to have experiences that will help them to learn and elevate their levels of consciousness and that when they die, if they hadn't met their objectives, they may reincarnate. To me, it sounds amazingly like New Ageish, or very similar to Hindu philosophiy. Although they don't believe in the need to convert, there does seem to be a theme in these traditions of a prophet who came to these ethnic groups to teach them how to commune with the creator and to learn morality and social order. In Yoruba tradition that figure is known as O-ru-mi-la. There is also another figure called O-du-du-a and one of the venerated ancestor orishas called O-ba-ta-la.

    They do have their version of oral poetry of wisdom that deals with the circumstances of human life, called O-du, but it's not like a bible or The Koran. It's more like the I Ching in that it's part of a divination system based on bi nary code. Each code pertains to a particular verse that deals with a problem, the solution, or word of advise. I guess traditionally back in Nigeria, everyone knew most of these Odu as they were like wise sayings or stories. But the priests have to memorize all of them. I believe there are over 200 basic verses and then sub verses, so, it's quite a lot.

    Anyway, that's basically what I've been able to find out from my friends and youtube lectures on the topic. It would be cool to meet an actual priest one day. But, hope that answered your question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna View Post
    124000 spread across what ...50000 or 300000 years ? We are not Christians who believe the earth is a mere 6000 years lol
    So you present another proof, that Islam is false.

    Islam teaches, that the Bible is legit.
    Mahomet claims, that everything what he is saying, is written in the Bible, and can be checked.
    So, if according to you, Islam and mahomet teach, that earth is 50 or 300 thousands years old,
    then it means, that Islam is false casue contradicts the source on which he claims to be based.


    But even if it would be so, then when you make (maybe a very hard for a muslim) a simple operation, like dividing 124,000 by 50,000, then you will have a 2,5 of islamic prophet by every year and if you even take the second ficional number 300k divided by 124k, then you have a one islamic prophet by every 2,5 year. So, man, where they are? There should be a countless proof for these enomous number of islamic prophets. Every year 2,5 of them or one by every 2,5 years. Where they are? Where? 40-250 by every 100 years. Recorded history has 4-5k years, so even in your fictional world history, we should have at least some information about from 2000 to 12500 of such important people. Where are any proofs for them?

    But, when you take unto consideration biblical point of view, then during 4000 years before Mahomet, you should have 31 such guys per every single year, and 3100 per every century. Where are they? Where? History doesn't know such guys at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna View Post
    Your ignorance is bliss . " not islamic " . Actually , there is no claim that the verse in the Quran meant that in today's current form people submitted their will to god ( Islam ) . Islam means submitting your will to your creator . It says messengers were sent to every nation to tell them to worship one god . There are messengers who have no followers .

    "Says a guy who believes in evangelion" . Oh I'm sorry , remind me , are the new testament the gospel of Jesus or Hearsay of anonymous writers posing as luke , mark John and Matthew?
    Oh, and now came out the real muslim from you, who is a liar, an enemy of the truth, who makes even Mahomet a liar.
    Mahomet said, gospels at his time – ergo the same as we have today – are legit. You say, they are not. Then who is a liar: you or Mahomet?

    Are you even aware of the textual criticism of the old and new testaments? Dont embarrass yourself.
    Yes, I am, and Bible survived every criticism. You can find almost every place from thousands mentioned in the Bible, identify majority of historical people mentioned there, find hundreds of accurate dates, thousands of early NT manuscripts — more then that: you can complete the whole NT only from the quotes in the works of christian early authors if you would not have the NT manuscripts. The Bible is wonderfull and true, surviving every criticism. Even atheistic archeologists are digging in the ground with the Bible in their pockets.

    Nothing from it can be said about koran or other islamic sources. No evidence for people mentioned there, wrong tribes, wrong places, no dates at all.
    Koranic criticism, which you are not aware about, totaly destroys the fairy tales which are commonly belived among muslims. You not only have thousands of readings, qirats aso, but also no existing manuscripts from early centuries of islam. And those who are the oldest (VIIIth, IXth, Xth centuries) are not complete, are different than today's ones, and even contradicting each other — the more: they have thousands of corrections, deletings or changes of whole sentences, pages and chapters.

    But in islamic case, there is not even a need for textual criticism, as islam himself teaches, that Koran is not what you belive it to be.
    — Islam teaches, that Mahoment didn't write anything. So, nor surity, that this what he tought is preserved.
    — Islam teaches, that many people who know some parts of koran, died at one battle. So, is not preserved as you cliam him to be.
    — Islam teaches, that at least one chapter was ate by the goat. So, your mekkan petty deity, couln't preserve his word even from the goat!
    — Islam teaches, that there were many different korans, which were at least twice burned: by Abubakr and by Osman. So, which one was correct?
    — Islam teaches, that there were at least two official compilations of the Koran, because first was wrong. So which one is correct?
    — Islam teaches, that there were many different readings and many different dialects having different meanings. Which one is correct?
    — Islam teaches, that there are still hundreds of different readngs, kirats and spellings, which have different meanings. Which one is correct?
    — The first standarized text was produce in 1924 in Cairo, and other Korans were sinked in the Nile. Maybe they were correct, hmmm?
    — The last standarized text, acknowledged in the World comes from... 1985, and is younger than many users here...
    — In addition, this text is based on the verion of a guy named Hafs, who was the admitted liar and guy who was twisting koranic verses.

    So, how dare you talking about criticism of the Bible! Make your own homework.
    »Genus patris vocatur genus, genus matris non vocatur genus.
    Familia patris vocatur familia, at familia matris non vocatur familia«

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avicenna View Post
    124000 spread across what ...50000 or 300000 years ? We are not Christians who believe the earth is a mere 6000 years lol and the dinasours was on Noah's ark .
    No but an strict reading of Quranic scriptures makes it impossible for most orthodox Sunni Muslim I encounter to accept the overwhelming data that Human are primates an not the by product divine creation of a pair of individuals that descendent to Earth because they eat of the fruit of the tree (Adam and Eve or Hawa in Arabic). Even scientifically literate individuals are force to come to a this conclusion, individuals like Daniel Haqiqatjou who got a physics degree from Harvard
    That's just as ridiculous as Dinosaurs are on Noah's ark.

    And talking about Noahs's flood. The Quranic story of Noah's flood is scientifically implausible, there's absolutely no evidence of an flood near Judi (a inland mountain range in Eastern Anatolia, nearly twice the size of Everest) and the nearest large body of water, Lake Van, never experience such level of flooding that reach Cirze ranges

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