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Thread: American Christian couple pretend to be Haredi Jews, immigrate to Israel, get caught

  1. #11
    Johannes factotum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hektor12 View Post
    Given a dose of your own medicine.
    Mad?
    Yes, of course, we will withdraw all the rabbis pretending to be imams and converting turkroaches to Judaism at once.

    Ultimately the pastor's efforts bore no fruit. I am not 'mad,' just shocked that anyone would go to this length of effort - but he is not alone. American Evangelicals are insane.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    just shocked that anyone would go to this length of effort
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...le-cousin.html

  3. #13
    Johannes factotum
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    Some people are just mentally ill my mans.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mont View Post
    It seems that for them it was not enough to rewrite our religion to fit their heretical views and expell our people from their lands using, for example, false accusations of blood libel, now they also want to divide and conquer until there's not a single one that rejects their Jebus fake god.
    I don't think it's fair to say Christians "rewrote your religion". I think Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism, which appeared at the same time, are both equally legitimate in their filiation from ancient sectarian Judaism (Sadducees, Pharisees, etc.), with distinct interpretations.

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    Johannes factotum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laly View Post
    I don't think it's fair to say Christians "rewrote your religion". I think Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism, which appeared at the same time, are both equally legitimate in their filiation from ancient sectarian Judaism (Sadducees, Pharisees, etc.), with distinct interpretations.
    This is tbf an argument that non-Christians do not make, although it's understandable Christians make it. Ofc Christians tend to believe they're equally legitimate but Christianity (obviously!) deviated entirely from the Torah.

    Rabbinic Judaism predates Christ by several centuries, btw, call them 'Pharisees' if you want. The first major treatise was codified in the 2nd century AD but to pretend that's when Rabbinic Judaism started is like pretending Christianity didn't start during Jesus' sermons/Paul's revelations, but when the Bible was codified in the 4th century.

    Modern Christianity is a serious deviation from Judaism in a way Rabbinic Judaism is not - it's empirical. It's the basis of your whole religion. You took the TaNaKH (or [Protestant] Hebrew Bible) and added canon. The Jews did not add canon.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mont View Post
    It seems that for them it was not enough to rewrite our religion to fit their heretical views and expell our people from their lands.
    Jews did the same thing. The tale of Genesis comes from the ancient Sumerians.

  7. #17
    Johannes factotum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosierboy View Post
    Jews did the same thing. The tale of Genesis comes from the ancient Sumerians.
    It comes from someone's imagination, I'm happy to blame the Sumerians.

    A lot of Jewish stuff is loaned. The story of Moses, even circumcision - all predates Judaism.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    This is tbf an argument that non-Christians do not make, although it's understandable Christians make it. Ofc Christians tend to believe they're equally legitimate but Christianity (obviously!) deviated entirely from the Torah.

    Rabbinic Judaism predates Christ by several centuries, btw, call them 'Pharisees' if you want. The first major treatise was codified in the 2nd century AD but to pretend that's when Rabbinic Judaism started is like pretending Christianity didn't start during Jesus' sermons/Paul's revelations, but when the Bible was codified in the 4th century.

    Modern Christianity is a serious deviation from Judaism in a way Rabbinic Judaism is not - it's empirical. It's the basis of your whole religion. You took the TaNaKH (or [Protestant] Hebrew Bible) and added canon. The Jews did not add canon.

    There is indeed a certain continuity between the Pharisees and Rabbinic Judaism. But it was, before, at the time of “ancient Judaism”, just one form of Judaism among others. And many important Jewish historians consider that there’s a real distinction between the Pharisees and Rabbinic Judaism, which would be the result of a Judaism whom the religious structures were totally rethought under the governance of the Pharisees. So yes, I consider both Rabbinic Judaism and (Judeo-)Christianity are legitimate heirs of ancient sectarian Jusaism.

    After the fall of the Second Temple, the Pharisaic movement became the only legitimate Judaism, rejecting other sects, especially the Judeo-Christianism (cf. the birkat haMinim).

    And actually, the composition of the Christian Bible wasn’t “codified”/invented in the IVth century. It was then confirmed that there are only the four gospels we know. There are several authors of authority from the very beginning of Christianity who wrote about the authentic Gospels that were transmitted, mentioning only four Gospels and they are, invariably, the canonical ones: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Among these authors, there are: Clement of Alexandria, Church Father (Stromata, book III, chapter XIII), Origen (Homiliae in Lucam, chapter one), Irenaeus of Lyon, Church Father (Adversus Haereses, book III, preliminary).

    We could also say that the New Testament offers an interpretation of the Jewish Bible, the ultimate interpretation. And many Jewish historians, like Joseph Klausner in the XIXth century or Mireille Hadas-Lebel and Armand Abécassis recently, consider that Jesus didn’t do anything that is not Jewish, that he never betrayed the law.
    Last edited by Laly; 01-11-2022 at 03:10 PM.

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    Erm, sorry to bother you. Did I thumb up or down your post? Meant to thumb up.

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    I have a book in which an Orthodox Rabbi looked at the New Testament in depth and found it to be a far more Jewish document than has traditionally been assumed. Strip away the deification of Jesus and the concept of the Trinity and it's basically Judaism for people who like bacon and cheeseburgers; and who aren't keen on circumcision.

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