Palestine vs Israel: Choose a side

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Samples selected are from Israel_2250-900_BC_(N=36). What other time periods can we look at?

There are samples dating from the Iron Age, Hellenistic and Roman periods. They come from Lebanon, though, not Israel. Maybe I'll post the averages tomorrow. I would say, however, that Samaritans can safely be used as a proxy for Jews in Roman times.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

Akshually I had several other much more recent incidents in mind, but it's sort of hard to kill collaborators when you're not even there. Satellite imagery shows the bodies before the Russkies leave town.

Yeah, and it's bullshit ('but they said it's true!). This has been discussed in another thread.

This is true, but I find your opinion on this topic basically you entrenching yourself behind your contrarian take. Nothing more. It has no connection to reality and it's begun to take on denialism to sustain itself.

And I see you as the human NATO Pez dispenser. You're the kind of guy who would have believed weapons of mass destruction. Why would they lie? Powell had aerial photos. The evidence is clear.

At least on Feb 24 you could say 'Russia will win swift, don't worry [poster], this is all justified' but now it's sad.

I never claimed it would be a sweeping, easy victory. I knew it would be urban warfare and urban warfare is the most difficult type of combat. The Ukrainians have some hardened nationalists, remember? I've told you this before but I keep getting lumped in with Silverknight, etc.

Not accurate, you could have googled. For example:

Why do you insult me with this bullshit? If this is the best you got, then why bother?

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5144899
https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...-battle-606845
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-so...der-into-gaza/

The second article:

At the same time, the sentence was a mere one month of community service since the conviction was not for a more serious charge, like manslaughter, but essentially for the low-grade offense of violating the rules of engagement for opening fire.

It was only community service because they didn't know if it was his bullet that hit the kid! Well, was anyone else firing? He was clearly the only one firing if they chose to charge him.

Essentially, they said that the unnamed IDF soldier had violated open fire regulations in shooting toward the 15-year-old Palestinian Othman Helles as he was climbing the Gaza security fence, but that IDF investigators could not establish for sure one way or another whether that soldier’s bullet was the one that killed him.

You couldn't find a better story?

The third article:

Serviceman sentenced to 10 days in military prison for shooting into the air at boundary for no apparent reason

Really, dude? I talk about people being shot and you post as your third article someone just being an immature ass.

The first article is behind a paywall but I'm not even bothering based on your other two crappy articles. I assume your first was the best for your argument but the other two just ruined it.

Obviously the majority of criminals get away with it but I think this is true for every single army ever. But the IDF does jail its soldiers, albeit in small numbers - like the US, UK, Russia, etc.

I'm talking about prosecuting war crimes and you unironically posted an article about a guy firing randomly into Gaza for a tiktok video.

"Not accurate, you could have googled. For example: guy shoots randomly into Gaza for a tiktok video and gets ten days in military prison." - Longbowman

Seriously, dude....

[Longbowman]

Yeah, and it's bullshit ('but they said it's true!). This has been discussed in another thread.



And I see you as the human NATO Pez dispenser. You're the kind of guy who would have believed weapons of mass destruction. Why would they lie? Powell had aerial photos. The evidence is clear.



I never claimed it would be a sweeping, easy victory. I knew it would be urban warfare and urban warfare is the most difficult type of combat. The Ukrainians have some hardened nationalists, remember? I've told you this before but I keep getting lumped in with Silverknight, etc.



Why do you insult me with this bullshit? If this is the best you got, then why bother?



The second article:



It was only community service because they didn't know if it was his bullet that hit the kid! Well, was anyone else firing? He was clearly the only one firing if they chose to charge him.



You couldn't find a better story?

The third article:



Really, dude? I talk about people being shot and you post as your third article someone just being an immature ass.

The first article is behind a paywall but I'm not even bothering based on your other two crappy articles. I assume your first was the best for your argument but the other two just ruined it.



I'm talking about prosecuting war crimes and you unironically posted an article about a guy firing randomly into Gaza for a tiktok video.

"Not accurate, you could have googled. For example: guy shoots randomly into Gaza for a tiktok video and gets ten days in military prison." - Longbowman

Seriously, dude....

First article is a guy charged with murder of one or maybe two (article very vague) women in Gaza, refers to 18 other cases not yet come to head. Third one was more of a funny one. You're wrong about Bucha (in Bucha's case we can see the photos, in Powell's case he said he'd seen them and people believed him, very different) and you reassured a poster early on that you believed Russia would swiftly win the battle before editing the reply - I saw it, though. Your commenting early on didn't suggest you believed it would be a long slog but obviously you have changed opinion since then, as has everyone else. The early posts on that thread are all 'two days to victory!' It was cute.

Just google it yourself, Israel has jailed several people for considerable time periods for murder. It's not like anyone else does more. The UK, US and Russia have all released people within months after jailing them for murder abroad (ie, Sgt A, Academi case perps whom Trump pardoned, etc). It's what armies do.

UK Cpl: 1 year for torture and murder: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/.../military.iraq
Russian soldier on trial admits to shooting civilians but tries Nuremburg defence: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/new...an-war-crimes/

[Ajeje Brazorf]

What other time periods can we look at?

Lebanon_800-400_BC_(N=10),0.0882128,0.1530404,-0.0498178,-0.0928948,-0.0114791,-0.0328811,-0.004371,-0.0087457,0.0120465,0.012228,0.0067069,-0.0059348,0.0140782,0.0031928,-0.0114278,0.0035534,-0.000052,0.0010262,0.0033937,-0.0004753,0.001697,0.0047729,-0.0046464,-0.0013253,-0.0020237
Lebanon_250_BC-550_AD_(N=10),0.0828634,0.143596,-0.0572846,-0.0867901,-0.0120637,-0.0296182,-0.0055225,-0.0080075,0.006422,0.0102598,0.0048718,-0.0083026,0.0139593,-0.0011011,-0.0106812,0.0100105,0.0042766,-0.0018244,0.0037331,-0.0010254,0.0018592,0.0052429,-0.0029332,0.0012049,-0.0044427

[raitj91]

Jews always lived in peace under Muslim control : Holocaust and pogroms happened in the European christian world

When Jews were expelled from Spain, they took refuge in North Africa and in the Ottoman Empire for instances

The modern hatred is that Palestinians are collateral victims of European collective guilt of Holocaust. Europeans felt guilty to have committed genocide, and let them take Palestine as a "compensation", this is why they are silent on the Israeli colonization.

Israeli Jews are insensitive to any other form of human sufferings because after what they endured in the past (Holocaust and pogroms), they feel that what happens to Palestinians is nothing, just exaggeration when compared.

Not to add that the US and the West are completely owned by Jewish-Zionist lobbies + global far-right Islamophobia gloryifing - how ironic when compared to the 30s - Israel as a model on how to "deal with Arab Muslims" (what we call in modern French political theory : the National-Zionist synthesis)

BS

In 1834, the Arabs in Safed rioted and conducted a massive pogrom directed at the Jews of Safed in the central Galilee. These pogroms and massacres directed at Jewish communities spread to Ramla, Lydda, Jaffa, Acre and Tiberias, where Christian members of the local clergy noted that the perpetrators attacked and viciously robbed the Jews, who lived in these towns, of all of their property. In 1920, 1921, 1929, 1933 and 1936, Arabs in British Mandatory Palestine rioted with the express intent – as urged by Nazi Collaborator and Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini – to murder the Jews. And, they murdered Jews by the dozens and injured hundreds in these massacres.

[raitj91]

"Actually killing children..."

Do you honestly want to play tit for tat on which side has killed more children? I'd leave you in the dust. Unfortunately, no one in mainstream media cares enough to name dead Palestinian children except in extreme cases, such as when Israeli settlers burned a family alive.

How many jews should die for you to feel its comfortably proportionate? Asking for 6.5 million friends.

PS - did the members of the family of the murderer, or the murderer itself, get stipend from the Israeli government the way Palestinians get murder stipends for killing Israeli civillians, inside and outside the west bank?

[raitj91]

It's not a religious conflict. The Gulf Arab nations work with Israel against Iran and Syria. Israel has more friends in the Arab world than the Palestinians, you could say (when speaking of governments).

And not all Palestinians are Muslim. A minority are Christians.

It is a religious conflict. That is how is started in 1920, fears that jews would have religious freedom to pray at their most holiest sacred site that was, you know, destroyed by the romans and then built on top of by muslims but screw history right?

[raitj91]

to Fool people ? Sure :



https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...onze_Age_1.pdf



https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms3543#Sec5



Uriel Rappaport, Propagande religieuse des juifs et mouvement de conversion à l'époque du Second Temple, Université hébraïque, 1965, p. 151


Dion Cassius, Roman History, LVII, 18


They indeed descend mostly from converts only small groups like iraqi jews or samaritans can pretend to be quite pure and similar to ancient jews.

Ashkenazi Jews are about half middle eastern, majority of this comes from the ancient canaanites topping out about 65 percent according to most recent analysis:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...92867420304876

[raitj91]

Is your indifference towards Palestinians a way to affirm your rejection of Islam ?

Because I do observe a pro-Zionist bias among many ex-Muslims (especially diaspora Iranians), as if, like eating pork in public, it's a required proof to show that "for sure we left Islam and we don't have anything to do with these backward violent people" ?

Many people leave religion - such as the catholic or evangelical church because of trauma. Trauma due to being gay, more secular, etc. They see Israel, which has 2 gay prides (one in Jerusalem, one in Tel Aviv) - they see gay Lebanese becoming Israeli residents through marriage, they see a country where Arabs are a part of the Supreme Court and every sect of government.

Meanwhile, they look at Palestine and PA/Hamas, which legalizes familial honor killings against gays, women, lack of freedom of speech under cyber laws, sharia constitution, animal cruelty, the usage of human (and coffin?) shields in the name of Allah, and it brings up trauma for them. I am speaking on behalf of people explaining why they became zionist after becoming atheist ex muslims.

Judaism has many issues as well, many people especially leave ultra orthodox judaism which seems to separate itself from mainstream and 90 percent of Israeli society, albeit, they too have representation in parliament, and every sect of government. Nonetheless, they are an extreme minority, and religious concerns do not have effect everyone as the declaration of independence is not based on halacha judaism, the way the PA's constitution is based on sharia. The worst for Israel is they control busses on Friday, but they do not allow familial honor killings due to shame.

[raitj91]

Does IDF targeting children and reporters collateral, also? It reveals an attitude of "I don't give a fuck."

I don't wave it away in Ukraine. I know they give a fuck.

Parents using their children as human shields, bringing them in the middle of riot battles where they are throwing pipe bombs at soldiers across the gaza border, and not evacuating their families from buildings used near launching stations per warning heeded by Israel, etc.