ANE = 100% Caucasoid ?

[qylymla]

ANE.jpg
Ancestral North Eurasian = 100% Caucasoid?

[reboun]

Neither. ANE predates modern Eurasians.

[qylymla]

Neither. ANE predates modern Eurasians.

They are proto-turk? 100% Altaic?

[PlattitüdenPaule]

Nope, at this time in history Europeans and Asians werent as clearly seperated compared to nowadays. Keep in mind that both share the same ancestor.

[reboun]

They are proto-turk? 100% Altaic?

They aren't proto-Turk but a major element in ethno-genesis of proto-Turks.

[qylymla]

Nope, at this time in history Europeans and Asians werent as clearly seperated compared to nowadays. Keep in mind that both share the same ancestor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV5Wseu_aYg
According to this video, they appear to be 100% Altaic and today they are all in the Tatar area of northern Kazakhstan. Can it be true?

[Petalpusher]

ANE Mal'ta Boy

Population
W_Eurasian 69.83%
E_Eurasian 30.17%
SSA -


But it's old so it might have been one the most non East Asian, Eurasian of the time. Today, he would likely have some East Asian/Siberian vibe at least, like the people scoring similarly 70/30.


To put it into perspective, this is what modern Europeans and non Euros score on this test (not to determine country of ancestry precisely, just a simple low K placement between the 3 majors groups)
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...results/page22

[qylymla]

ANE Mal'ta Boy

Population
W_Eurasian 69.83%
E_Eurasian 30.17%
SSA -


But it's old so it might have been one the most non East Asian, Eurasian of the time. Today, he would likely have some East Asian/Siberian vibe at least, like the people scoring similarly 70/30.


To put it into perspective, this is what modern Europeans and non Euros score on this test (not to determine country of ancestry precisely, just a simple low K placement between the 3 majors groups)
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...results/page22

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand. For a beginner like me, simpler and faster to understand does this mean that a 100% ANE person is 30% East Asian?

[Komintasavalta]

I just did ADMIXTURE runs of ancient Eurasian samples and a few American samples. The proportion of the East Eurasian component in MA1 was 33% at K=2 and 28% at K=3. However Sunghir, Kostenki, and GoyetQ116 also had about 20-27% of the East Eurasian component. And ElMiron (which is a few thousand years younger than MA1) had about 10% of the East Eurasian component.

Here the first column shows the percentage of the East Eurasian component at K=2 and the second column shows the percentage of the East Eurasian component at K=3:

$ printf %s\\n Armenia_EBA Azerbaijan_Caucasus_lowlands_LN Belgium_UP_GoyetQ116_1_published_all Canada_BigBar_5700BP.SG China_HMMH_MN China_NEastAsia_Coastal_EN China_NEastAsia_Inland_EN China_SEastAsia_Island_EN China_Shimao_LN China_Tianyuan China_Upper_YR_LN China_WLR_MN China_YR_LN China_YR_MN Croatia_N_Starcevo Czech_Baalberge Czech_Vestonice16 England_Mesolithic_all.SG England_N_all.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Germany_EN_LBK Hungary_EN_HG_Koros Iran_BA1_ShahrISokhta Iran_C_TepeHissar Iran_ShahrISokhta_BA2_published Ireland_N.SG Italy_Mesolithic.SG Italy_North_Villabruna_HG Japan_HG_Jomon Kazakhstan_Botai.SG Kazakhstan_Botai_Eneolithic.SG Kazakhstan_Central_Steppe_EMBA.SG Kazakhstan_Dali_EBA Kazakhstan_Mereke_MBA_o2 Latvia_HG.SG Latvia_MN Latvia_MN_o2 Lithuania_EMN_Narva Luxembourg_Loschbour_published.DG Mongolia_Chalcolithic_Afanasievo_1 Mongolia_EBA_Chemurchek_2 Mongolia_EBA_Ulgii_1 Mongolia_East_N Mongolia_North_N Norway_Mesolithic.SG Norway_N_HG.SG Poland_BKG.SG Poland_TRB.SG Romania_IronGates_Mesolithic Russia_Afanasievo Russia_Afanasievo_published Russia_BA_Okunevo.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Russia_HG_Karelia Russia_HG_Sosnoviy Russia_HG_Tyumen Russia_Kolyma_M.SG Russia_Kostenki14 Russia_Lokomotiv_Eneolithic.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_MBA_Poltavka Russia_MN_Boisman Russia_Potapovka_o1 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic.SG Russia_Siberia_Irkutsk_EBA Russia_Siberia_Lena_EBA Russia_Siberia_Lena_EN Russia_Siberia_Tenisei_EBA Russia_Siberia_UP Russia_Sidelkino_HG.SG Russia_Steppe_Maikop Russia_Sunghir1.SG Russia_Sunghir2.SG Russia_Sunghir3.SG Russia_Sunghir4.SG Russia_UstBelaya_Angara Russia_UstBelaya_Angara_published Russia_UstIda_LN.SG Russia_Ust_Ishim_HG_published.DG Russia_Yana_UP.SG Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic Spain_C Spain_ElMiron Spain_HG.SG Spain_HG_published.SG Sweden_Ansarve_Megalithic.SG Sweden_Mesolithic.SG Sweden_Motala_HG.SG Switzerland_Bichon.SG Turkey_N_published Turkmenistan_C_Geoksyur Turkmenistan_EBA_Parkhai Turkmenistan_Gonur_BA_1 Turkmenistan_MBA_Parkhai USA_Ancient_Beringian.SG USA_Anzick_realigned.SG Ukraine_Mesolithic Ukraine_N Uzbekistan_Bustan_Eneolithic>pop
$ x=tophog8;awk -F\\t 'NR==FNR{a[$0];next}$8 in a&&$15>3e5&&!a[$3]++{print$2,$8}' pop v44.3_HO_public.anno>$x.pick
$ alias pli='plink --allow-no-sex'
$ pli --bfile v44.3_HO_public --keep <(awk 'NR==FNR{a[$1];next}$2 in a' $x.pick v44.3_HO_public.fam) --make-bed --out $x
[...]
$ pli --bfile $x --indep-pairwise 50 10 .05 --out $x;pli --bfile $x --extract $x.prune.in --make-bed --out $x.p
[...]
$ tav()(awk '{n[$1]++;for(i=2;i<=NF;i++){a[$1,i]+=$i}}END{for(i in n){o=i;for(j=2;j<=NF;j++)o=o FS sprintf("%f",a[i,j]/n[i]);print o}}' "FS=${1-$'\t'}")
$ for k in 2 3;do admixture -j4 -C .1 $x.p.bed $k;awk 'NR==FNR{a[$1]=$2;next}{print$2,a[$2]}' $x.{pick,fam}|paste -d' ' - $x.p.$k.Q>$x.$k;cut -d' ' -f2- $x.$k|tav \ >$x.${k}a;done
[...]
$ paste -d' ' $x.[23]a|awk '{printf"%f %s\n",$3+$5,$0}'|sort -n|awk '{printf"%.0f %.0f %s\n",100*$4,100*$6,$2}'
0 0 England_Mesolithic_all.SG
0 0 Hungary_EN_HG_Koros
0 0 Italy_North_Villabruna_HG
0 0 Latvia_HG.SG
0 0 Latvia_MN
0 0 Lithuania_EMN_Narva
0 0 Luxembourg_Loschbour_published.DG
0 0 Romania_IronGates_Mesolithic
0 0 Switzerland_Bichon.SG
0 0 Serbia_IronGates_Mesolithic
0 0 Italy_Mesolithic.SG
0 0 England_N_all.SG
0 0 Spain_C
1 0 Sweden_Ansarve_Megalithic.SG
1 0 Czech_Baalberge
1 0 Poland_TRB.SG
2 0 Germany_EN_LBK
1 2 Ukraine_N
3 0 Ireland_N.SG
0 3 Spain_HG_published.SG
0 3 Sweden_Motala_HG.SG
3 0 Turkey_N_published
3 0 Poland_BKG.SG
3 0 Croatia_N_Starcevo
1 3 Sweden_Mesolithic.SG
3 6 Spain_HG.SG
3 6 Norway_Mesolithic.SG
5 5 Ukraine_Mesolithic
4 6 Norway_N_HG.SG
13 0 Armenia_EBA
13 0 Azerbaijan_Caucasus_lowlands_LN
7 7 Latvia_MN_o2
14 3 Russia_Afanasievo_published
13 4 Russia_Samara_EBA_Yamnaya
14 4 Mongolia_Chalcolithic_Afanasievo_1
14 4 Russia_Afanasievo
9 11 Spain_ElMiron
19 1 Georgia_Satsurblia.SG
15 7 Russia_MBA_Poltavka
19 2 Iran_C_TepeHissar
19 3 Georgia_Kotias.SG
20 3 Turkmenistan_MBA_Parkhai
17 7 Kazakhstan_Mereke_MBA_o2
21 4 Uzbekistan_Bustan_Eneolithic
21 6 Turkmenistan_EBA_Parkhai
22 7 Turkmenistan_C_Geoksyur
23 7 Turkmenistan_Gonur_BA_1
16 15 Russia_HG_Karelia
24 8 Iran_BA1_ShahrISokhta
16 16 Russia_Sidelkino_HG.SG
19 16 Czech_Vestonice16
24 20 Russia_Sunghir1.SG
25 20 Russia_Sunghir2.SG
26 19 Russia_Steppe_Maikop
27 19 Russia_Potapovka_o1
26 21 Russia_Kostenki14
26 22 Russia_Sunghir4.SG
27 23 Russia_Sunghir3.SG
26 25 Belgium_UP_GoyetQ116_1_published_all
34 26 Mongolia_EBA_Chemurchek_2
33 28 Russia_MA1_HG.SG
35 31 Russia_HG_Sosnoviy
38 31 Kazakhstan_Dali_EBA
43 31 Iran_ShahrISokhta_BA2_published
41 37 Russia_HG_Tyumen
44 41 Kazakhstan_Botai.SG
49 45 Russia_Yana_UP.SG
50 45 Russia_Ust_Ishim_HG_published.DG
49 46 Kazakhstan_Botai_Eneolithic.SG
62 59 Russia_BA_Okunevo.SG
63 60 Kazakhstan_Central_Steppe_EMBA.SG
71 68 China_Tianyuan
77 75 Russia_Siberia_Tenisei_EBA
82 81 USA_Ancient_Beringian.SG
83 82 USA_Anzick_realigned.SG
84 82 Canada_BigBar_5700BP.SG
86 84 Japan_HG_Jomon
88 86 China_SEastAsia_Island_EN
89 88 Mongolia_EBA_Ulgii_1
90 90 Russia_Kolyma_M.SG
97 96 Russia_Siberia_Lena_EN
99 98 Russia_UstIda_LN.SG
99 99 Russia_Siberia_Lena_EBA
100 99 Russia_UstBelaya_Angara
100 100 China_HMMH_MN
100 100 China_NEastAsia_Coastal_EN
100 100 China_NEastAsia_Inland_EN
100 100 China_Shimao_LN
100 100 China_Upper_YR_LN
100 100 China_WLR_MN
100 100 China_YR_LN
100 100 China_YR_MN
100 100 Mongolia_East_N
100 100 Mongolia_North_N
100 100 Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG
100 100 Russia_Lokomotiv_Eneolithic.SG
100 100 Russia_MN_Boisman
100 100 Russia_Shamanka_Eneolithic.SG
100 100 Russia_Siberia_Irkutsk_EBA
100 100 Russia_UstBelaya_Angara_published

[Petalpusher]

I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand. For a beginner like me, simpler and faster to understand does this mean that a 100% ANE person is 30% East Asian?

30% "Eastern Eurasian" not specifically East Asian, so think about everything in the eastern half of Eurasia. That is also expected as ANE at his point and time would still have some affinities with East Eurasia, but still more with west Eurasian or what would become West Eurasians later. The test would have benefited to have an Ocenian at K4 to sort this Eastern Eurasia score better but still interesting little test, almost like a formal stat. The 4 major groups should be always there at least.