Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Is it true that Irish/Welsh/Scottish people aren't actually Celtic?

  1. #1
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Last Online
    11-08-2021 @ 11:56 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Saxon/Gaelic
    Ancestry
    British Isles
    Country
    New Zealand
    Y-DNA
    T-M184
    Taxonomy
    Proto-Nordid
    Gender
    Posts
    4
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2
    Given: 1

    1 Not allowed!

    Default Is it true that Irish/Welsh/Scottish people aren't actually Celtic?

    Is it true that the 'Insular Celts' aren't even really Celtic? I've heard that they're mostly descended from the Bell Beaker people and that only a small number of Celts migrated there.

    Does this mean that groups such as Southern Germans, Austrians or even Iberians are actually far more Celtic than them?

  2. #2
    Dinkum
    Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    Creoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celtic Australian
    Ancestry
    English & Irish Midlands. Gaels, Anglo-Saxons & Britons.
    Country
    Australia
    Region
    Victoria
    Y-DNA
    R1b-DF109
    mtDNA
    K1a10
    Politics
    Diversity is our greatest weakness
    Hero
    Those who made a better world
    Gender
    Posts
    11,843
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 13,865
    Given: 6,537

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
    Is it true that the 'Insular Celts' aren't even really Celtic? I've heard that they're mostly descended from the Bell Beaker people and that only a small number of Celts migrated there.
    Yeah, because nearly all of them speak English as a first language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
    Does this mean that groups such as Southern Germans, Austrians or even Iberians are actually far more Celtic than them?
    No, none of those have any remaining Celtic language or identity, unlike Insular Celts. South Germans do have much more genetic inheritance from Hallstatt/La Tene Celts though, that's presumably why they're so Southern shifted.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Last Online
    07-27-2022 @ 04:03 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ancestry
    47.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N 40.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara 12.4 WHG
    Country
    France
    mtDNA
    H1
    Politics
    Liberal
    Gender
    Posts
    447
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 185
    Given: 72

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Celts were a people of central Europe with a specific culture. Apparently the Celts of central Europe / southern Germany were not on the British Isles, but the Celts were not unified and there were separate tribes. Probably the Indo-Europeans who arrived on the British Isles spoke a Western Celtic language, but they were not of the same tribes as the Celts of continental / central Europe. They came to this conclusion because the weapons and styles of other manufactured objects were different.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Last Online
    05-19-2021 @ 09:38 PM
    Location
    Kłodzko
    Ethnicity
    Elite
    Country
    European Union
    Y-DNA
    r1a-m458
    Taxonomy
    Corded (Battle Axe)
    Gender
    Posts
    959
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,035
    Given: 1,712

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    yes, they are originally from Tver oblast, Cymru - Kimry = one ... thing
    https://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymru
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimry

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Last Online
    07-27-2022 @ 04:03 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ancestry
    47.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N 40.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara 12.4 WHG
    Country
    France
    mtDNA
    H1
    Politics
    Liberal
    Gender
    Posts
    447
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 185
    Given: 72

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Yeah, because nearly all of them speak English as a first language.


    No, none of those have any remaining Celtic language or identity, unlike Insular Celts. South Germans do have much more genetic inheritance from Hallstatt/La Tene Celts though, that's presumably why they're so Southern shifted.
    The 'Celtic' tribes were not unified. Many separate Indo-European groups spoke 'celtic Western' languages. Celtic is a specific designation for a central European culture that no longer exists. Probably the 'original Celts' were the Celts who bear the name of this central European culture. Central European Celts are obviously not the same as British Islands Celts. Probably Central European Celts carried Germanic R1b, while Indo-Europeans who also spoke a Western Indo-European language (all are called 'Celtics') carry different R1b haplogroups.

  6. #6
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Last Online
    11-08-2021 @ 11:56 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Saxon/Gaelic
    Ancestry
    British Isles
    Country
    New Zealand
    Y-DNA
    T-M184
    Taxonomy
    Proto-Nordid
    Gender
    Posts
    4
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2
    Given: 1

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Yeah, because nearly all of them speak English as a first language.


    No, none of those have any remaining Celtic language or identity, unlike Insular Celts. South Germans do have much more genetic inheritance from Hallstatt/La Tene Celts though, that's presumably why they're so Southern shifted.
    Of course, culturally speaking you're right, but genetically though, Southern Germans/Swiss are probably much more Celtic since the Celts were originally from Central Europe.

    I should've clarified that I was talking about genetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.o.l.i.t.a View Post
    Celts were a people of central Europe with a specific culture. Apparently the Celts of central Europe / southern Germany were not on the British Isles, but the Celts were not unified and there were separate tribes. Probably the Indo-Europeans who arrived on the British Isles spoke a Western Celtic language, but they were not of the same tribes as the Celts of continental / central Europe. They came to this conclusion because the weapons and styles of other manufactured objects were different.
    We don't know that.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Last Online
    07-27-2022 @ 04:03 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ethnicity
    Celtic
    Ancestry
    47.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N 40.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara 12.4 WHG
    Country
    France
    mtDNA
    H1
    Politics
    Liberal
    Gender
    Posts
    447
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 185
    Given: 72

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
    Of course, culturally speaking you're right, but genetically though, Southern Germans/Swiss are probably much more Celtic since the Celts were originally from Central Europe.

    I should've clarified that I was talking about genetics.



    We don't know that.
    Wasn't it obvious? Speaking the same linguistic family does not mean being the same people / tribe. What is obvious in the different r1b clades.

  8. #8
    Hialt
    Guest

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    I think that after spanning a certain geographic distance, "phenotypical" facial features generally change their shape. So, even though there is reason to believe Celts were both in Continental Europe and Scotland/Ireland, and even perhaps culturally the same, I think we are talking a distance so long that characteristically "Celt" features must morph.

    For example, look at the wide variety of different facial features found among blondes. Some blondes have big noses, some blondes have small noses, etc. Likewise, I think, we can probably dismiss the idea that those "Kelts" at the north tip of Scotland were "identical" on a physical, genetic level to those Continental Celts/Gauls who historically settled in Galatia, in modern-day Turkey.

  9. #9
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Last Online
    11-08-2021 @ 11:56 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Saxon/Gaelic
    Ancestry
    British Isles
    Country
    New Zealand
    Y-DNA
    T-M184
    Taxonomy
    Proto-Nordid
    Gender
    Posts
    4
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2
    Given: 1

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by L.o.l.i.t.a View Post
    Wasn't it obvious? Speaking the same linguistic family does not mean being the same people / tribe. What is obvious in the different r1b clades.
    No, because those places (Southern Germany and Switzerland) received a lot of Germanic influence. Also, when most people think of Celtic people, they don't really think of Swiss people, they think of Irish/Welsh/Scottish people. Most people have no clue who the Beaker people are, they just think that British people are descended from Celtic and Germanic tribes that migrated to the isles. With the Irish and Welsh being supposedly the purest Celts. I used to think that too btw, so it was pretty interesting to me learning that the 'Insular Celts' have very little actual Celtic ancestry.

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Septentrion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Last Online
    Today @ 08:20 AM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Ethnicity
    100% Northwest European and Flemish
    Ancestry
    From Flanders ( Koninkjrik België )
    Country
    Belgium
    Y-DNA
    R1a - L664
    mtDNA
    n/a
    Taxonomy
    60% Borreby with strong 40% Keltic Nordid admixture
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Posts
    11,146
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,172
    Given: 3

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
    Is it true that the 'Insular Celts' aren't even really Celtic? I've heard that they're mostly descended from the Bell Beaker people and that only a small number of Celts migrated there.

    Does this mean that groups such as Southern Germans, Austrians or even Iberians are actually far more Celtic than them?
    They are Celtic ( Insular Celtic). The Celts were not a homogeneous group. It is the Bell Beaker type people who brought Indo - European speech in this case Keltic to that part of Europe. Insular Celts have retained certain physical characteristics of Celtic told by ancient writers such pale or very fair skin, light eyes, ginger hair, etc...
    Celtic speech, culture, literature has persisted in this part of Europe than anywhere. If the Irish, Welsh, Scottish are not Celtic than Scandinavians are not Germanic either.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Irish+Welsh+Scottish average.
    By gixajo in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-06-2020, 10:43 AM
  2. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 07-05-2020, 02:47 PM
  3. Replies: 55
    Last Post: 02-05-2019, 05:46 PM
  4. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-21-2018, 01:06 PM
  5. Replies: 28
    Last Post: 02-20-2017, 03:45 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •