Tsakonians

**Konstantinos** · 05-19-2021, 07:23 AM

For those who don't know them, they are a Greek relic population. They have been so isolated that their dialect descends from Doric Greek, while every other Greek dialect is descended from Koine Greek, itself based on Ionic Greek. The period of Koine Greek starts at ~4th c. BC.

Based on this, I think they can be used as reference for pre-Slavic Greeks. I see various models trying to figure out, apart from Slavic ancestry, any Bronze Age- or later- Anatolian/Caucasian/Near Eastern ancestry in Greeks. Tsakonians, especially South, can be assumed to be unadmixed for the last ~2300 years. If any ancestry fom the East came between then and proto-Greeks, so 2300 BC-300 BC, they would probably carry it too. If it postdates this chronology, we have a "checkpoint" in time for such a scenario.

I would like to see models that use Tsakonians as donour population for other Greeks. This could involve Tsakonians along with ancient/modern Slavic sources, Tsakonians along with ancient/modern Slavic sources and ancient/modern Middle Eastern sources etc. Anyone who uses amateur or even better professional tools would be appreciated.

* Tsakonians could be interchanged with Maniots, but I think if possible the former, particulary South, are even better choice for various reasons. Also there's possible differences in outcome if Tsakonians, a modern population, is used alongside ancients but this could be discussed for each result individually.

**Longbowman** · 05-19-2021, 08:21 AM

Just because they speak Doric Greek doesn't make them exemplars of the ancient Hellenes, necessarily. We don't use the Xibe as reference for Manchu.

**Konstantinos** · 05-19-2021, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Longbowman

Just because they speak Doric Greek doesn't make them exemplars of the ancient Hellenes, necessarily. We don't use the Xibe as reference for Manchu.

Good point in the sense that you can't be absolutely sure though there is a study on Peloponnesians including Tsakonians and Maniots that supports the view that they are generally "pure". In any case, my goal is not to estimate specific ancestries down to the percent, more to test some hypotheses and Tsakonians I believe are a good substitute in the absence of relevant ancient samples.