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Thread: Are there Jews who are against the state of Israel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    They are the Jews Jesus warned about. Many are imposters.

    Sent from my G9 PRO using Tapatalk
    Alright , call me skeptical but it seems to me Jews like to hedge their bets almost maybe kind of like playing roles such as good cop vs bad cop. I am not sure if that makes any sense though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    Typical jewish trick. "Good" shabbesgoy.



    Whom?
    Hamas is a terrorist organization run by the Palestinian frauds

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian View Post
    Serious question, what do you propose happen to them, these people that "want to kill all Christians"?
    The simplest would be to let them deal with their situation alone. Zero support, except for the Christians leaving there in both sides. Other option would be to recolonize the Palestine, as it was before 1948. Then both groups would be subjected to the colonizer, and shouldn't have any special neither political rights. As the subjects they should be treated equally, so neither jews neither arabs should be treated more favorably than others. And from the state administrative point of view, it would be wonderfull if they would mixed together.

    a) They won't stay in Israel, both by choice and by revenge persecution by the new Arab majority after right to return for Arabs is established(and probably a pro-non Palestinian Arab immigration policy)
    If they won't, then better is to send them somewhere far away, on Madagaskar, Sokotra, Somalia, Indonesia, or Vietnam, in worst scenario on Djerba. (The best would be Easter Island, but is too small). They need only one city, as all Jews would fit to Moscow, so, the territory would not be a problem. Taking unto account Manila's density, all Jews around the world would need 350 sq. km (with wannabes some 500), less than Warsaw has, so they could be placed anywhere — far from Christian countries and from European world in broad sense. And of course, such expulsion wouldn't have sense, if there would be no expulsion (very softly speaking) of Freemasons and Witches.

    b) The only people that will want them are Europeans/North Americans, even a lot of "based Poles" will want them or be neutral to them coming back(see: Peterski)
    No, he's joking mostly. (I hope).

    Also, what happens with R1a Israelis?
    And 1b. They should be forcibly baptized and reindoeuropeanized (maybe even
    like scartabellats with limited rights through three-four generations, just in case).
    And if it has to be in the Palestine, they should then join the christian outremerian
    folk in Paralia, as it was in good post-constantine roman and also medieval times.
    There is some two and a half million of them, so they could make it.
    Last edited by Rethel; 05-23-2021 at 07:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    The simplest would be to let them deal with their situation alone. Zero support, except for the Christians leaving there in both sides. Other option would be to recolonize the Palestine, as it was before 1948. Then both groups would be subjected to the colonizer, and shouldn't have any special neither political rights. As the subjects they should be treated equally, so neither jews neither arabs should be treated more favorably than others. And from the state administrative point of view, it would be wonderfull if they would mixed together.



    If they wont, then better is to send them somewhere far away, on Madagaskar, Sokotra, Somalia, Indonesia, or Vietnam, in worst scenario on Djerba. (The best would be Easter Island, but is too small). They need only one city, as all Jews would fit to Moscow, so, the territory would not be a problem. Taking unto account Manila's density, all Jews around the world would need 350 sq. km (with wannabes some 500), less than Warsaw has, so they could be placed anywhere — far from Christian countries and from European world in broad sense. And of course, such expulsion wouldn't have sense, if there would be no expulsion (very softly speaking) of Freemasons and Witches.



    No, he's joking mostly.



    And 1b. They should be forcibly baptized and reindoeuropeanized (maybe even
    like scartabellats with limited rights through three-four generations, just in case).
    That was one your most intelligent and lucid posts on this forum even though I am not sure I agree with everything. You must have been infused with the holy spirit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    Hamas is a terrorist organization run by the Palestinian frauds
    Where I said I support Hamas?
    And what you mean by frauds?

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    Yes, many.

    The most famous organised anti-Zionist Jews are the Neturei Karta sect. The Neturei Karta are a Hassidic sect of 5-7,000 people who are virulently opposed to Israel and participate in anti-Israel marches in the UK, USA and even Israel itself, where some of them do live (in Jerusalem). Some larger Hassidic sects are also anti-Israel on religious grounds, but are not as active in their opposition. A good example of this is the Satmar sect, which has 75,000 people (ie, 0.5% of the entire Jewish global population, 1 in every 200 people). There are several other Hassidic sects that are ant-Zionist and a small number of non-Hassidic anti-Zionists, but there are also many who are Zionist, for example, Habad, which is one of the most unusual Hassidic sects anyway, highly influenced by messianism and mitnagidut.

    All these groups are anti-Zionist for mostly the same reason: religion. They believe that it is not permissible for Jews to found a state before the coming of the Messiah - ie, only the Messiah can found Israel. This is common thinking amongst charismatic or spiritualistic Jews, hence why so many Hassidim believe in it. Conversely, in 'rational' Judaism, the Jews have to found Israel before the Messiah can come - for example, Maimonedes argues for the building of the Temple in pre-Messianic times. However, many of them do live in Israel (under protest); some of their families have lived their since well before 1948.

    Of course, Rethel is vaguely correct in that they still do want a Jewish state in Israel - in fact, much like [true] Kahanists, they want a state run by their version of halakha (Jewish law), like the Taleban do in Afghanistan or ISIS do throughout the Ummah, only under Sharia. However, this is no different to Christians who sincerely believe when their Messiah returns, all non-Christians will perish in a war, or Muslims who believe Jews will perish in their Messianic era. Rethel's virulent anti-Semitism prevents him from seeing how similar he is to these people. Nonetheless, they are very sincere in their anti-Zionism, and many of them are very willing to work with Arabs. Some are even ministers in the Palestinian government.

    There are other examples. There used to be many, many examples, from left-wing eastern European bundists, who opposed Zionism on socialist grounds, to upper-class capitalist Jews in England, who opposed Zionism because it upset their ideas of nationalism and belonging. There are remnants of both these beliefs and many others. There were organised anti-Zionist groups in many Arab countries, such as Egypt, but obviously when these people were effectively expelled the groups mostly ceased to exist. However, some remaining Jews, such as the last Jews of Yemen, refused to move to Israel because they viewed it as secular and heretical - when the Houthis finally expelled them, they chose to move to the UAE, not Israel, America, or anywhere else, to continue being Arabs.

    Reform Judaism and other liberal strands of Judaism - ie, non-Orthodox or Masorti/Conservative - were originally anti-Zionist, for religious and ideological reasons. The Reform movement proclaimed that moving to Israel was unnecessary in the same way literally sacrificing an animal to God was unnecessary; you could be a good Jew in any country, and in fact, you should work to promote your country of birth. They wanted Jews to be good Germans, Frenchmen, Americans, or anything else. Indeed, the first Reform movement in the UK - founded by my ancestors - was originally known as British Judaism, and their members as British Jews. However, since the 1900s, many Reform Jews have adopted Zionism for ideological reasons, as they have abandoned the nationalism of the 19th century. Nonetheless, religiously speaking, Zionism does not play a significant role in Reform Judaism, and a large number of Reform, Humanistic, Reconstructionist and other Jews are opposed to Zionism, anti-Zionist, highly critical of Israel or a mix of all three.

    There are many more groups and nuances to discuss, but I'll let someone else talk about them. Many individuals or families even in Modern Orthodox groups are anti-Israel for various reasons - personal religious beliefs, personal ideological beliefs, disgust with the Israeli government. Jews still living in Iran (about 10,000 people) and other Muslim places have to at least pretend to be anti-Zionist, and I believe many actually are. Secular Jews are also often anti-Zionist - and, also, often Zionist. The Israeli communist party - Hadash (new) - runs on the Arab List, and opposes the existence of a Jewish state - continuing the Bundist tradition of socialist anti-Zionism. Some people who fought for Israel's independence later soured on Zionism because of its treatment of Arabs - for example, Juliano Mer-Khamis' mother, Arna, who ended up marrying a Christian Palestinian and moving to Jenin.

    No group is a hivemind, after all, people are individuals.
    Last edited by Longbowman; 05-23-2021 at 01:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggery View Post
    Like radical Muslims?
    Maybe even worse. Just Judeoislam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesBond007 View Post
    You must have been infused with the holy spirit.
    Idk if the holy spirit has something to do with it, and if he deals with such matters in present time, rather with the gospel,
    but anybody, who will learn the basic jewish religious believes, historical and modern deeds, and also political and spiritual
    motivations, no matter from which side (talmudic, zionistic or kaballistic) will be terryfied, and will finally come to the only
    reasonable conclusion, that the Catholic Monarchs were right, and the Edict of Alhambra should be implemented in every
    single christian country, to uprooted the root and the cause of almost all troubles which are destroying our sociaties.
    Last edited by Rethel; 05-23-2021 at 05:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    Yes, many.

    The most famous organised anti-Zionist Jews are the Neturei Karta sect. The Neturei Karta are a Hassidic sect of 5-7,000 people who are virulently opposed to Israel and participate in anti-Israel marches in the UK, USA and even Israel itself, where some of them do live (in Jerusalem). Some larger Hassidic sects are also anti-Israel on religious grounds, but are not as active in their opposition. A good example of this is the Satmar sect, which has 75,000 people (ie, 0.5% of the entire Jewish global population, 1 in every 200 people). There are several other Hassidic sects that are ant-Zionist and a small number of non-Hassidic anti-Zionists, but there are also many who are Zionist, for example, Habad, which is one of the most unusual Hassidic sects anyway, highly influenced by messianism and mitnagidut.

    All these groups are anti-Zionist for mostly the same reason: religion. They believe that it is not permissible for Jews to found a state before the coming of the Messiah - ie, only the Messiah can found Israel. This is common thinking amongst charismatic or spiritualistic Jews, hence why so many Hassidim believe in it. Conversely, in 'rational' Judaism, the Jews have to found Israel before the Messiah can come - for example, Maimonedes argues for the building of the Temple in pre-Messianic times. However, many of them do live in Israel (under protest); some of their families have lived their since well before 1948.

    Of course, Rethel is vaguely correct in that they still do want a Jewish state in Israel - in fact, much like [true] Kahanists, they want a state run by their version of halakha (Jewish law), like the Taleban do in Afghanistan or ISIS do throughout the Ummah, only under Sharia. However, this is no different to Christians who sincerely believe when their Messiah returns, all non-Christians will perish in a war, or Muslims who believe Jews will perish in their Messianic era. Rethel's virulent anti-Semitism prevents him from seeing how similar he is to these people. Nonetheless, they are very sincere in their anti-Zionism, and many of them are very willing to work with Arabs. Some are even ministers in the Palestinian government.

    There are other examples. There used to be many, many examples, from left-wing eastern European bundists, who opposed Zionism on socialist grounds, to upper-class capitalist Jews in England, who opposed Zionism because it upset their ideas of nationalism and belonging. There are remnants of both these beliefs and many others. There were organised anti-Zionist groups in many Arab countries, such as Egypt, but obviously when these people were effectively expelled the groups mostly ceased to exist. However, some remaining Jews, such as the last Jews of Yemen, refused to move to Israel because they viewed it as secular and heretical - when the Houthis finally expelled them, they chose to move to the UAE, not Israel, America, or anywhere else, to continue being Arabs.

    Reform Judaism and other liberal strands of Judaism - ie, non-Orthodox or Masorti/Conservative - were originally anti-Zionist, for religious and ideological reasons. The Reform movement proclaimed that moving to Israel was unnecessary in the same way literally sacrificing an animal to God was unnecessary; you could be a good Jew in any country, and in fact, you should work to promote your country of birth. They wanted Jews to be good Germans, Frenchmen, Americans, or anything else. Indeed, the first Reform movement in the UK - founded by my ancestors - was originally known as British Judaism, and their members as British Jews. However, since the 1900s, many Reform Jews have adopted Zionism for ideological reasons, as they have abandoned the nationalism of the 19th century. Nonetheless, religiously speaking, Zionism does not play a significant role in Reform Judaism, and a large number of Reform, Humanistic, Reconstructionist and other Jews are opposed to Zionism, anti-Zionist, highly critical of Israel or a mix of all three.

    There are many more groups and nuances to discuss, but I'll let someone else talk about them. Many individuals or families even in Modern Orthodox groups are anti-Israel for various reasons - personal religious beliefs, personal ideological beliefs, disgust with the Israeli government. Jews still living in Iran (about 10,000 people) and other Muslim places have to at least pretend to be anti-Zionist, and I believe many actually are. Secular Jews are also often anti-Zionist - and, also, often Zionist. The Israeli communist party - Hadash (new) - runs on the Arab List, and opposes the existence of a Jewish state - continuing the Bundist tradition of socialist anti-Zionism. Some people who fought for Israel's independence later soured on Zionism because of its treatment of Arabs - for example, Juliano Mer-Khamis' mother, Arna, who ended up marrying a Christian Palestinian and moving to Jenin.

    No group is a hivemind, after all, people are individuals.
    These are all fake Jews- synagogue of Satan. They are working for shadow government authorities to undermine Israel and the USA. They want to bring globalism and communism worldwide and usher in the destruction of Democracy all over. Then a world wide currency would be implemented. God will not allow a two state arrangement. If Israel falls, so goes the world. Jesus will come back and clean it up because this is part of the prophecy. Those who bless Israel will be blessed. Those who curse it will be cursed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    These are all fake Jews- synagogue of Satan. They are working for shadow government authorities to undermine Israel and the USA. They want to bring globalism and communism worldwide and usher in the destruction of Democracy all over. Then a world wide currency would be implemented. God will not allow a two state arrangement. If Israel falls, so goes the world. Jesus will come back and clean it up because this is part of the prophecy. Those who bless Israel will be blessed. Those who curse it will be cursed.
    You are a really stupid individual and nothing you say is worth responding to. You are most valuable when you are making people laugh, but they never laugh with you.
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