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Thread: Are there Jews who are against the state of Israel?

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    Noam Chomsky's always strong on Israel. I'm sure there will be a few on the left like that.

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    Anyway some crybaby begged me to specify what I meant by 'many' a couple of posts ago. In percentage terms, I suspect the number of Jewish antizionists is around 6-8%, with a much larger percentage opposed to the current administration, the occupation of the west bank, etc. A breakdown:

    Around 2% of Jews are explicitly antizionist Hassidim. The largest single group are Satmar but there are many others, notably Neturei Karta but also Toldos Aharon, etc. A large number of Chassidim from other groups are also anti-Zionist, for example my cousin, who is Chernobyler. Note: of course all these people support the right of Jews to live in Israel, just not as part of a Jewish state.

    Around 1% are antizionist ultra-Orthodox who are not Hassidim. About 2/3 of Hareidim identify as 'non-Zionist' or 'anti-Zionist' but in reality many of these do tacitly accept the state and participate in it. Still, a significant number are not, including many mitnagdim. I know a couple of rabbis from this strand.

    Around 1.5% are communists or socialists who oppose Zionism on the basis of ethnic nationalism being antithetical to Marxist ideology. This isn't so prominent in Europe or the CIS anymore, but Israeli communists like Hadash and a few bluehairs in the West make up the numbers. We all know a few people like this. Numbers on the decline in Israel but probably on the slight increase in Seppostan.

    Anywhere between 2.5 and 5% of Jews are just leftwingers who oppose Zionism, mostly but not always associated with Reform, Reconstructionist, Liberal, Humanistic etc or just secularism. Numbers much harder to ascertain but certainly not zero and probably the bulk of the opposition.

    The numbers of right-of-centre to centre-right Jews who are antizionist is fairly negligible. Numbers of Jews in places like Iran who are sincerely antizionist are also negligible (even if the entire community were sincerely antizionist it'd be less than 0.01% of the total community).
    Last edited by Longbowman; 05-23-2021 at 09:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    Anyway some crybaby begged me to specify what I meant by 'many' a couple of posts ago. In percentage terms, I suspect the number of Jewish antizionists is around 6-8%, with a much larger percentage opposed to the current administration, the occupation of the west bank, etc. A breakdown:

    Around 2% of Jews are explicitly antizionist Hassidim. The largest single group are Satmar but there are many others, notably Neturei Karta but also Toldos Aharon, etc. A large number of Chassidim from other groups are also anti-Zionist, for example my cousin, who is Chernobyler. Note: of course all these people support the right of Jews to live in Israel, just not as part of a Jewish state.

    Around 1% are antizionist ultra-Orthodox who are not Hassidim. About 2/3 of Hareidim identify as 'non-Zionist' or 'anti-Zionist' but in reality many of these do tacitly accept the state and participate in it. Still, a significant number are not, including many mitnagdim. I know a couple of rabbis from this strand.

    Around 1.5% are communists or socialists who oppose Zionism on the basis of ethnic nationalism being antithetical to Marxist ideology. This isn't so prominent in Europe or the CIS anymore, but Israeli communists like Hadash and a few bluehairs in the West make up the numbers. We all know a few people like this. Numbers on the decline in Israel but probably on the slight increase in Seppostan.

    Anywhere between 2.5 and 5% of Jews are just leftwingers who oppose Zionism, mostly but not always associated with Reform, Reconstructionist, Liberal, Humanistic etc or just secularism. Numbers much harder to ascertain but certainly not zero and probably the bulk of the opposition.

    The numbers of right-of-centre to centre-right Jews who are antizionist is fairly negligible. Numbers of Jews in places like Iran who are sincerely antizionist are also negligible (even if the entire community were sincerely antizionist it'd be less than 0.01% of the total community).
    These ultra-orthodox Jews have their own neighborhoods in Jerusalem and they hate being recorded with cameras, I saw them in a documentary, they also hate technology if it is not necessary and they have an average of 7 children, they look like Amish.

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    There's a large contingent of genetic Jews(mostly in North America and the EU) who likely weren't raised in either the Religion or the ethnic culture who are anti-Israel, Graham mentioned a prominent one(Chomsky), and like Longbowman pointed out are usually Marxist college students, etc(although I disagree they'd only be 1.5% of Jews). Skinny gay guy in this video is a prime example, I don't think people like him are uncommon and I'd say they're more common than the Orthodox anti-Israel Jews(and people like Rethel want to talk about the actual Religion or whatever is written in the Talmud, atleast the more recent antisemitism post-WW2 usually stems from conflicts of interest/opinions between whites and people like these, not typically the more Zionist or Religious Jews):



    or this girl who thinks her parents are Russian converts:





    Someone like Rudy Rochman is surely an interesting case too. He's very Zionist and a very proud Jew, but does want Israel to reform, one unified state, anti-US military/foreign aid(so more military manufacturing jobs stay in Israel according to him), wants to tear down the West Bank wall, is pro-Jewish settlements in West Bank and Aliyah/Jewish migration to Israel but not against freedom of movement of West Bank Palestinians into Israel proper. Not sure of his opinion on right to return is, which is probably one of the more contentious points of the conflict.
    Last edited by XenophobicPrussian; 05-23-2021 at 10:09 PM.
    The Guanche skulls as a whole are unlike those of modern European Mediterraneans, and resemble northern European series most closely, especially those in which a brachycephalic element is present, as in Burgundian and Alemanni series.
    divided them into clearly differentiated types, which include a Mediterranean, a Nordic, a "Guanche," and an Alpine. The "Guanche" accounts for 50 per cent of the whole on the four islands of Teneriffe, Gomera, Gran Canaria, and Hierro; the Nordic for 31 per cent, the Mediterranean for 13 per cent, and the Alpine
    oldschool anthropology

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    Rudy Rochman looks like Amir Khan's long-lost brother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian View Post
    There's a large contingent of genetic Jews(mostly in North America and the EU) who likely weren't raised in either the Religion or the ethnic culture who are anti-Israel, Graham mentioned a prominent one(Chomsky), and like Longbowman pointed out are usually Marxist college students, etc
    They are more dengerous than the religious ones and zionists. From these both last groups you know what to suspect and what they represent, and they can be easy to deal with, as it was in past centuries. Religious ones are happy to be isolated in ghettos and zionists usually end with mass suicide, if not, there is a chance to calm them down (like Joseph Flavius). But the marxists, leftists, anti-own goup have damaged brains, like all leftists. So, if they are anti-Israeli without any coherent convictions, then they will be also anti-locals, pretending to be assimilated but scheming, plotting and promoting destructive behaviours in the non jewish environment. The best example is George Schwartz–Soros. Some light versions of such we had and have on this forum.
    Last edited by Rethel; 05-24-2021 at 05:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooting Carmen View Post
    Rudy Rochman looks like Amir Khan's long-lost brother.
    Yes, he is very against the idea of Jews being "white", likely for for this reason(he is half Moroccan Jew, half Ashkenazi anyway, but he doesn't think Ashkenazis are very mixed).

    You see it on the other side too, with these Muslims claiming a Jew is "Muslim looking" and saying he looks like a "bruva", when literally half of Israeli Jews(or under half if you consider Sephardics intermediary between MENA and Ashkenazi) are just Middle-Eastern Jews:


    (4:57-5:15)

    It appears Apricity-tier opinions exist in the real world too.
    The Guanche skulls as a whole are unlike those of modern European Mediterraneans, and resemble northern European series most closely, especially those in which a brachycephalic element is present, as in Burgundian and Alemanni series.
    divided them into clearly differentiated types, which include a Mediterranean, a Nordic, a "Guanche," and an Alpine. The "Guanche" accounts for 50 per cent of the whole on the four islands of Teneriffe, Gomera, Gran Canaria, and Hierro; the Nordic for 31 per cent, the Mediterranean for 13 per cent, and the Alpine
    oldschool anthropology

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richmondbread View Post
    These are all fake Jews- synagogue of Satan.
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