Doesn’t South Italians’ genetically clustering with Greek Islanders support my point?

[reboun]

If you remember I claimed that races and sub-races are biologically constructed but ethnicities are rather socially constructed. Doesn’t South Italians’ genetically clustering with Greek Islanders support my point? I really don’t think most South Italians think they are ethnically Greek Islander nor vice versa. They might be different opinions on this topic but I really think ethnicity is more of a social concept rather than being determined by DNA.

[Nurzat]

do they? I didn't pay attention to the plots.

southern Italy was heavily colonized by Ancient Greeks (some are still proud of the name Magna Graecia) and I think it was part of Byzantine empire in the early Middle Ages as well, I saw a lot of places there have Byzantine style churches (visited the region). they also have a Greek dialect (Griko) spoken in some villages here and there in Calabria.

so Greek heritage seems to be strong indeed, but is it known or promoted by locals?


Wiki:

"The Griko people (Greek: Γκρίκο), also known as Grecanici in Calabria, are an ethnic Greek community of Southern Italy. They are found principally in regions of Calabria (Province of Reggio Calabria) and Apulia (peninsula of Salento).

Calabria: 22,636 (2010)
Apulia: 54,278 (2005)"

[Dušan]

Magna Graecia was the name given by the Romans to the coastal areas of Southern Italy in the present-day regions of Campania, Apulia, Basilicata, Calabria and Sicily; these regions were extensively populated by Greek settlers. The settlers who began arriving in the 8th century BC brought with them their Hellenic civilization which left a lasting imprint in those territories such as in the culture of ancient Rome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Graecia

[Dušan]

I saw a lot of places there have Byzantine style churches (visited the region).

In some maps parts of Southern Italy and Sicily were marked as Eastern Orthodox in 11th century.

[Petalpusher]

Of course a half Austrian/Greek is not going to identify as Romanian or something like that because he plots around there. This mindset only applies at larger scale, like African mulatto or Blasian, half Asian whatever it's called with whites. They don't identify as firmly anymore with their countries of origins but rather as mulatto/mixed person.

On the other hand Greeks and Italians would never feel to have anything in common if for some odd reasons Greeks were ethnically Khanti (let's say) so it has to do with ethnicity too in a broader sense, not in a sub sub sub racial context.

[Petalpusher]

dp

[alexmegas777]

[Demis]

Of course a half Austrian/Greek is not going to identify as Romanian or something like that because he plots around there. This mindset only applies at larger scale, like African mulatto or Blasian, half Asian whatever it's called with whites. They don't identify as firmly anymore with their countries of origins but rather as mulatto/mixed person.

On the other hand Greeks and Italians would never feel to have anything in common if for some odd reasons Greeks were ethnically Khanti (let's say) so it has to do with ethnicity too in a broader sense, not in a sub sub sub racial context.

Yep. Genetic cluster =\= shared ancestry.

[Faklon]

In some maps parts of Southern Italy and Sicily were marked as Eastern Orthodox in 11th century.

This is very arbitrary and it is based upon who ruled who.

The separation between Orthodoxy and Catholicism is skewed at this time and based only upon the recognition of primacy of the bishop of Rome (pope) by each empire. It doesn't carry the historical implications of the crusades and the modern notions of East-West or the ones in west Balkans.

South-Italians are mostly Catholic even if they have ancient and medieval Greek/Byzantine ancestry. However, Western Christianity didn't spawn out of nothing, it is a turn of East-Roman Christianity based on the primacy of the pope. Not only South Italy but Venice and Ravenna (Justinian's Western seat) have a decent amount of pre-schism Byzantine churches.

[reboun]

do they? I didn't pay attention to the plots.

southern Italy was heavily colonized by Ancient Greeks (some are still proud of the name Magna Graecia) and I think it was part of Byzantine empire in the early Middle Ages as well, I saw a lot of places there have Byzantine style churches (visited the region). they also have a Greek dialect (Griko) spoken in some villages here and there in Calabria.

so Greek heritage seems to be strong indeed, but is it known or promoted by locals?


Wiki:

"The Griko people (Greek: Γκρίκο), also known as Grecanici in Calabria, are an ethnic Greek community of Southern Italy. They are found principally in regions of Calabria (Province of Reggio Calabria) and Apulia (peninsula of Salento).

Calabria: 22,636 (2010)
Apulia: 54,278 (2005)"

Of course a half Austrian/Greek is not going to identify as Romanian or something like that because he plots around there. This mindset only applies at larger scale, like African mulatto or Blasian, half Asian whatever it's called with whites. They don't identify as firmly anymore with their countries of origins but rather as mulatto/mixed person.

On the other hand Greeks and Italians would never feel to have anything in common if for some odd reasons Greeks were ethnically Khanti (let's say) so it has to do with ethnicity too in a broader sense, not in a sub sub sub racial context.

You both are right but I try to mean that Greek Islanders are closer to South Italians than North Italian are to South Italian. However, North Italians and South Italians are still considered as the same ethnicity but Greek Islanders and South Italians are not considered as the same ethnicity for most of the time. Therefore, I think DNA might not always determine one’s ethnicity.