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Thread: Observations on the differences between the Scots and the English

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    Some are from the past when countries were homogenous, some are modern amateur efforts from people who specifically only looked at natives. When I counted native English sportsmen's pigmentation it pretty much accorded with other studies.
    I just wondered because it seemed counterintuitive that Southeast England would have such a relatively high amount of people with brown eyes, compared to the rest of the country, unless there was a high influx of French migrants in the distant past. I definitely get the high amount if they use the modern population since London, etc. are such heterogeneous regions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggery View Post
    I always thought that most of the Irish had some red-haired relative, and that around 30 to 40% of their native population had the genes, this is a map of red hair in USA.
    The map didn't appear for some reason. If it's the one that I have, southwestern Virginia and northeastern Tennessee is bright red, as well as close areas. It's the only part of the Appalachians like this. I just did a bit of genealogical research, and most lines include people of Native Irish descent (Kelly, Malone, Murphy, etc.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-Celtic View Post
    The map didn't appear for some reason. If it's the one that I have, southwestern Virginia and northeastern Tennessee is bright red, as well as close areas. It's the only part of the Appalachians like this. I just did a bit of genealogical research, and most lines include people of Native Irish descent (Kelly, Malone, Murphy, etc.).
    Fixed up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggery View Post
    I always thought that most of the Irish had some red-haired relative, and that around 30 to 40% of their native population had the genes, this is a map of red hair in USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggery View Post
    I always thought that most of the Irish had some red-haired relative, and that around 30 to 40% of their native population had the genes, this is a map of red hair in USA.
    The map came through that time. My family comes from the bright red area (not all of it). Other groups watered down the red hair in New England and New York. They would have been bright red, otherwise.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-Celtic View Post
    The map came through that time. My family comes from the bright red area (not all of it). Other groups watered down the red hair in New England and New York. They would have been bright red, otherwise.
    It amazes me that New England, New York and I would add that Massachusetts are not in bright red and that little southern area, especially when the Northeast also received a huge wave of Irish immigrants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-Celtic View Post
    I just wondered because it seemed counterintuitive that Southeast England would have such a relatively high amount of people with brown eyes, compared to the rest of the country, unless there was a high influx of French migrants in the distant past. I definitely get the high amount if they use the modern population since London, etc. are such heterogeneous regions.
    It's a fair question, but I think it can be largely attributed to Southern England having more Continental Celtic blood than the rest of the British Isles. Gaels and Northern Britons probably weren't much darker eyed than Anglo-Saxons if at all, but in Southern Britain Anglo-Saxons were mixing with people possibly up to 15% darker eyed than themselves, plus Romano-British.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    It's a fair question, but I think it can be attributed to Southern England having more Continental Celtic blood than the rest of the British Isles. Gaels and Northern Britons probably weren't much darker eyed than Anglo-Saxons if at all, but in Southern Britain Anglo-Saxons were mixing with people possibly up to 15% darker eyed than themselves, plus Romano-British.
    I get that for Southwest England but not as much for Southeast England. Of course, it's probable that some Germanic invaders had dark eyes and dark hair. Britons, especially women, might have remained in Southeast England to a greater extent than theorized. Darker groups could have settled there before the Roman conquest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anglo-Celtic View Post
    I get that for Southwest England but not as much for Southeast England. Of course, it's probable that some Germanic invaders had dark eyes and dark hair. Britons, especially women, might have remained in Southeast England to a greater extent than theorized. Darker groups could have settled there before the Roman conquest.
    That's what I'm referring to in Continental Celts. Insular Celts in the Iron Age/Roman era were a mixture of Bronze Age British and Continental Celtic speakers, with Southern Britons having more of the latter's blood, and consequently being darker eyed and more Southern shifted. The Romans made note of the Southern Britons being similar to Northern Gauls on the other side of the Channel.
    Last edited by Creoda; 06-22-2021 at 05:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggery View Post
    It amazes me that New England, New York and I would add that Massachusetts are not in bright red and that little southern area, especially when the Northeast also received a huge wave of Irish immigrants.
    They would have been were it not for the ethnic groups with darker hair. Blame the Blacks, Italians, Jews, (fill in the blank).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Creoda View Post
    That's what I'm referring to in Continental Celts. Insular Celts in the Iron Age/Roman era were a mixture of Bronze Age British and Continental Celtic speakers, with Southern Britons having more of the latter's blood, and consequently being darker eyed and more Southern shifted. The Romans made note of the Southern Britons being similar to Northern Gauls on the other side of the Channel.
    That makes sense. What particular regions fall under "southern shifted"?

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