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Thread: Origins of I2a1: Is it Slavic?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion Basescul View Post
    N_Atlantic Baltic West_Med West_Asian East_Med Red_Sea South_Asian East_Asian Siberian Amerindian Oceanian NE_African Sub-Saharan
    26.54 37.53 12.93 9.52 6.52 2.11 1.42 0.52 2.04 0.89 0 0 0
    Target: Balti_results
    Distance: 1.1650% / 1.16495979
    72.2 Slavic
    10.6 Paleo_Balkan
    9.7 Eastern_Mediterranean
    7.5 Turkic

    By CommonSense logic this "Turkic" thing came from Moldavian side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspirin View Post
    Target: Balti_results
    Distance: 1.1650% / 1.16495979
    72.2 Slavic
    10.6 Paleo_Balkan
    9.7 Eastern_Mediterranean
    7.5 Turkic

    By CommonSense logic this "Turkic" thing came from Moldavian side.
    It's hard to tell where it comes for sure, but this individual looks something like half or more Russian.
    In Moldovans though, Tatars could be one cause, but I personally don't really buy this, because families should have an oral history of a foreign individual, especially if they were of a different faith. Also I can't speak for others, but I did my research with all the tests that I've done, and I've yet to meet a match from Crimea, Kazakhstan, Kazan, Turkey, etc. This is probably either some kind of medieval survival of genes, akin to Csangos and Szeklers who score even more East Asian trace, or a survival of genes older than that. For example Sarmatians, Cimmerians and non-Getae Scythians from Moldova scored heavily on East Asian-like admix. In people mixed with Russians, this will be from their Russian side.

    Fun fact, I was thinking that Turanic traits in the family come from the side in Trebujeni, but it's actually Susleni. My paternal grandma's mother was born there and settled in Trebujeni when she married. So my theory on the Mongol element surviving in Trebujeni because of it having been a Golden Horde town at some point is irrelevant for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ion Basescul View Post
    It's hard to tell where it comes for sure, but this individual looks something like half or more Russian.
    It is, very high Baltic and very low East Med.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ion Basescul View Post
    Fun fact, I was thinking that Turanic traits in the family come from the side in Trebujeni, but it's actually Susleni. My paternal grandma's mother was born there and settled in Trebujeni when she married.
    Irrelevant for Orhei.

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    Post I2a and E1b1b

    I2 haplogroups are likely to have been introduced into the Neolithic pool through admixture with hunter-gatherers. I2a has indeed been found in Mesolithic and Neolithic Central and North European hunter–gatherers, as well as in Neolithic remains of southwestern Europe. Haplogroup I2a (and possibly I1) might represent a pre-farming legacy of the NRY variation in Europe, alongside the recently described pre-Neolithic C (M130) haplogroups in Russia and Spain.

    The R1a haplogroup has not been found among Neolithic farmer populations nor in hunter–gatherer groups in central and western Europe. Uniquely in northern and central Europe, most of the male lineages were inherited from the local Neolithic. Haplogroups I1 and I2a1 are most frequent in present-day populations of Europe, with the highest frequencies in Scandinavian and southeast European populations, respectively.

    Haplogroup I2a was the most frequent Y-DNA among western European mesolithic hunter gatherers (WHG) belonging to Villabruna Cluster. A 2015 study found haplogroup I2a in 13,500 year old remains from the Azilian culture (from Grotte du Bichon, modern Switzerland).

    Y-Chromosome Haplogroups in the Bosnian-Herzegovinian Population Based on 23 Y-STR Loci: ".. most prevalent haplogroup appears to be I2a, which accounts for a total of 49%, while E1b1b and R1a represent the second most abundant haplogroups, each accounting for 17% of all Y chromosomes in the studied population. The remaining six haplogroups appear to be present to a smaller extent in the following manner (Table 2 and Figure 2): J2a (5%), I1 (4%), R1b (4%), J2b (2%), G2a (1%) and N (1%)."

    Bosnian-Herzegovinan population using Whit Athey's Haplogroup Predictor: https://i.ibb.co/MnFJKCK/90.png, https://archive.ph/AcknE/903bdba9860...c72459644f.png

    90.png

    Distribution of Y-haplogroups in the Slovak population: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...tbl2_236178497, https://archive.ph/Z6Cog/faa1b6fcccc...ba259e8b73.png

    Frequencies of Y-haplogroups (%) found in the nine populations from the Balto-Slavic language family: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...tbl6_236178497, https://archive.ph/UhRb5/3be29e2ede0...0e6240e88d.png, https://i.ibb.co/gT1DMZm/3.png

    3.png

    GeneaologyWise states — and probably correctly so — that "Haplogroup I2a1a2b-L621, or to be precise, its subclade Y3120, is often considered as another "Slavic" haplogroup (beside R1a-Z282), which is wrong and scientifically inadmissible."

    GeneaologyWise, furthermore states, that the haplogroup I2a is believed to have been one of the haplogroups of the first anatomically modern humans to inhabit Europe, Cro-Magnons, and while it is obvious that most of today's European R1a people are the Slavs, the R1b people are the Celts (or, to be precise: not all R1b men are the Celts, but all Celts are R1b!!), and I1a people are the "Northmen" or Germans in general, the ancestors of these people were not known by those names 3000 years ago. But they nevertheless inherited the same (basal) Y-DNA lineages which "genetic" Slavs, Celts, and Northmen/Germans inherit today.

    Debbie Kennett (2011) writes in DNA and Social Networking regarding this social network especially for genealogists: "GeneaologyWise, www.genealogywise.com, is a dedicated genealogy social networking website which was launched in the summer of 2009. The site was created by Family Link, a new company launched in 2006 by Paul Allen."

    GeneaologyWise is correct in pointing out that "Slavs and Germans are not just ethno-linguistic but also indisputable ethno-genetic categories."

    And I do not think there is any dispute that the Slavs and Germans are indisputable ethno-genetic categories.

    Geographical representations of frequency gradients for haplogroups I2a (A), R1b (B), R1a (C) and E1b1b (D).

    ResearchGate: Geographical representations of frequency gradients for haplogroups I2a.

    The oldest people in Europe: https://archive.ph/woDq8

    "... I2a and E1b1b (Fig 4a,d) both exhibit high densities within the Balkan states. These haplogroups are also observed at high levels throughout Eastern Europe but are found at considerably lower concentrations in western European regions. Haplogroup R1b (Fig. 4b), on the other hand, is found at high densities throughout Western Europe but dwindles steadily toward the east. R1a (Fig. 4c) reaches its frequency peak in western Russia (from the populations included in this report) and attains high levels in central Europe as ..."

    https://archive.ph/g6Yhh#selection-717.0-721.513

    See Also: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...77#post7502277

    GeneaologyWise says that I2a1 is a typical European haplogroup and is present all over the continent with maximum frequencies recorded in Bosnia (particularly among Bosnian Croats), Sardinia, Croatia, Serbia (+30%), Montenegro, Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria, and Macedonia (20-30%). The percentages of I2a1a2b-L621 clade in Slovenia, Ukraine, and Russia available on the Internet should be taken with caution because they are definitely smaller: up to 13% in Slovenia, 16% in Ukraine, and about 7-8% in Russia. (According to the study of Andrej Zupan /2014/, and data from Ukrainian and Russian DNA projects /2021/)

    Indo-European.eu: Dinaric I2a and the expansion of Common Slavs from East-Central Europe

    SpringerLink: Phylogeographic review of Y chromosome haplogroups in Europe

    R1a vs I2a in Europe: https://archive.ph/l9Gwa

    Europe and MENA by haplogroups: https://archive.ph/VaX1L/17bd25e5e79...f5560f4809.jpg

    By analyzing the archaeological remains, it was determined that until some 6000 years before the new era, the I2a1 haplogroup was dominant in Western Europe, while I2a2 was dominant in the Balkans. The famous Iron Gates culture belonged to that culture.
    https://archive.ph/woDq8#selection-4205.0-4205.253

    ESTIMATED Y-DNA DISTRIBUTION 2000 YEARS AGO: https://archive.ph/5LPpq/583c68ebe1b...7cbfab4a24.jpg

    Vinča culture: https://i.ibb.co/4NW7sNT/vinca11.jpg

    > 10 000 BC: https://archive.ph/lwOsd/11f9089781e...d96811d9ce.png
    10.000 BC - 7.000 BC: https://archive.ph/woDq8/8d51010d9e0...e7312fba10.jpg
    5000 - 3000 BC: https://archive.ph/woDq8/c2edfe0fc90...838b0a5272.jpg
    3000 - 2000 BC: https://archive.ph/39tI7/5f50c6088da...6f523476f7.jpg
    2000 - 1000 BC: https://archive.ph/UBhl9/64ad255f5db...e2d4f0992a.jpg

    Let us now look at the statistics of all descendants and haplogroups in Europe today and understand which nation is today the purest heir of the oldest Europeans, based on research from scientific papers.

    Bosnians – 49% – I2 – Doğan et al. 2017
    Swedes – 42% – I1 – Karlsson 2006
    Danes – 39% – I1 – Nasidze 2004
    Serbs – 38% – I2 – Mirabal et al. 2010
    Croats – 37.7% – I2 – Mršić et al. 2014
    Norwegians – 37% – I1 – Dupuy 2005


    Thus, we come to the conclusion that Bosniaks are the most typical representatives of the old European I2 haplogroup, but in a significant percentage also both Serbs and Croats, while Swedes are the most typical representatives of the I1 haplogroup in Europe, but in a significant percentage also both Danes and Norwegians.
    https://archive.ph/woDq8#selection-4279.0-4321.323

    Frequency of I2a-Dinaric (Russia 28%, Ukraine 18%, Romania 12%): http://blog.vayda.pl/wp-content/uplo...inaric-map.jpg, https://archive.ph/ycZRg/7a0055d6c72...120e303831.jpg

    I2a-Dynaric population and frequency per country: https://archive.ph/WwHEF/e7ab3982a3d...3a89184028.jpg

    Subclads of haplogroup I2-Dinaric: https://archive.ph/vff5U/789f37f7c6f...1444ba68df.jpg

    7.jpg

    Almost half of the I2a-Dinaric population is in Russia and Ukraine. The dinaric countries (former Yugoslavia) are 15%. In Western Europe, 5% of the I2a-Dinaric population lives, mainly Italy and Germany, as well as Belgium and Spain. The latter is probably the remains of Vandals migration. The population in these countries ranges from 100 to 300 thousand men with hg Dinaric. It seems that the homeland of the haplogroup Din (Y3120) are the historical Black Sea steppes from Romania through Ukraine to the Volga. From these areas, genetic migration was to the west, to Poland, Slovakia and the Czech Republic. The second migration route would be from Romania to the Hungarian Plain. The third is from the north to Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Slovenia. All these YDNA migrations were no more than 2,500 years ago.
    https://archive.ph/uN3dV#selection-249.0-253.436

    You can also distinguish areas of similar distributions:

    Northern – Poland, Belarus, Ukraine – advantage DinA2, DinA3, DinB
    Eastern – Russia – advantage DinA3, DinB
    Central – Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Austria, Slovenia, Romania
    Southern 1 – Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Serbia – absolute domination of DinA3
    Southern 2 – Greece, Bulgaria, Macedonia – a large share of DinA3 and DinC
    https://archive.ph/uN3dV#selection-291.0-303.75

    Słowiańska haplogrupa R1a i I2a-Dinaric/Slavic: http://blog.vayda.pl/en/i2a-dinaric-subclade-y3120-2/

    I2a haplogroup: https://www.google.com/search?q=I2a+...A_enAU973AU973

    I2a map: https://www.google.com/search?q=I2a+...A_enAU973AU973

    Distribution of Richard's I2a-L161 Family: https://archive.ph/LbyMO#selection-1205.0-1205.41

    Present day Y-haplogroups in Romania:
    Before Farming Ro DNA – 33%: I1-4.5%, I2/I2a-26%, I2b-2.5%
    Middle East Farmers DNA – 35%: J2/J1-15%, E1b1b-15%, G-5%
    Old Europe DNA – 68%: I1/2-33% + J1/E1/G – 35%
    Kurgan, Celt & Slav DNA – 29.5%: R1a-17.5% + R1b-12%
    Kurgan/Celt DNA 17.5%: R1a-17.5%
    Kurgan/Slav DNA – 12%: R1b-12%

    7000 years of history. Ro DNA:68% Old Europe & 29.5% Kurgan
    12.000BC-6000BC – I1/2 before farmers
    6000BC-5000BC – J1/2,E1b1,G bring farming from Middle Asia
    6500-2000 BC Burned house horizon
    5508 BC Anno Mundi – the biblical creation of the world
    5700-4500 BC Vinca Culture
    5500-2750 BC Cucuteni Culture
    4400-4300BC First Kurgan Wave into East-Central Europe
    3500BC Second Kurgan Wave-R1b Transformation of Central Europe
    3000BC Third Kurgan Wave-Proto ItaloCelts in Transylvania/Pannonia
    2000-1500BC R1a Greco-Macedonians invade ”Greece” from North
    1200-1000BC R1b Hallstatt, Dorians & Sea People – First Dark Age
    1000BC-82BC Iron Age Thracia/Daco-Getia
    460 BC-46 AD The Odrysian Kingdom
    82BC-106AD Burebista to Decebal –Magna Dacia & Dacian Kingdoms
    106-271 Romans defeat Decebal and have 23 wars with Free Dacians
    271-376 Gutthiuda/Gothia – after the final roman retreat
    376-454 The Hun Empire – push south the Goth who destroy Rome
    Start of Second Dark Age – fall of economies based on slavery caused by free people, city civilisations replaced by village economy
    454-567 Gepid Kingdom – destroyed by avars in 576 Avars & Lombards
    567-670 Avar Periods – Early 567-670, Middle 670-720 & Late 720-804
    681-1018 First Bulgar Empire – 893-927 Simeon the Great
    940-1046 Voievodatul lui Iuliu – primul episcopat Ortodox la Alba-Iulia
    1185-1396 Second Vlah-Bulgarian State
    1330 Wallachia – Basarab I defeats Charles I of Hungary at Posada
    1359 Moldavia – from Transylvania to the Dniester River

    I would in all honesty point out that the presence of R1 in Romanian Mesolithic individuals and in older European human remains suggests that this haplotype was already found at high frequencies in certain regions of Europe well before ∼4.5 kya or the Late Neolithic and Bronze Age.

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...80#post7500980
    Last edited by VikLevaPatel; 05-14-2022 at 12:31 AM.
    Y-DNA (P): R1b-S47 (Irish/Scot), E1b1b1 (Proto-Semitic), C1b-Z5896. mtDNA (M): W6 (Gotland/Sweden). Ancient (European) Origins: Indo-European (Metal Age Invader) 67%, Early/First/Neolithic European Farmer (EEF/FEF/ENF) 8–10%, WHG 3–7%; Turkey 20–30%; Caucasian-Anatolian-Balkan 40–43%; Volga Region 18–20%; Ukrainian 11–12%; Viking 10%; Scandinavian 6–7% EHG–Steppe: Corded Ware 28–34, Yamnaya (Steppe Pastoralist) 23–25%, Bell Beaker 22–24%; Steppe to SCAsian 20–23%; Euro HG 11-12% CHG/Iran: Caucasus (CHG) 31–33%; Iran_N 54–60%; IVC 64-67%


  5. #55
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    Lightbulb Late Neolithic, I2a1, Hunter-Gatherer Resurgence

    Heterogeneous Hunter-Gatherer and Steppe-Related Ancestries in Late Neolithic and Bell Beaker Genomes from Present-Day France

    "Hunter-Gatherer Resurgence" of 4400 BC in France featured WHG men with I2a Y-haplogroup conquering the EEF states.

    WHGs ruled western Europe & Balkans from 12,000 to 6,000 BC. The WHGs were possibly heterogeneous, expanding from different refugia after the end of the last ice age.

    https://archive.ph/A5DbG/bd0c31a0d25...7b561e33ea.jpg

    E.jpg

    Late Neolithic populations were genetically diverse and included individuals with dark skin, hair, and eyes.

    The apparently high frequency of I2a1 may reflect a general dominance of this haplogroup across Late Neolithic France.

    No individuals from the same archaeological site carried identical mitochondrial haplotypes, indicating no maternal relatedness (Data S1E). In contrast, all males were assigned to the Y chromosome haplogroup I2a1, except one individual at Mont-Aimé belonging to haplogroup H2a1 and one ∼4,400-year-old R1b1a1b1a1a2a1 individual from Grotte Basse de la Vigne Perdue (Data S1F).

    Close or incompletely covered but matching haplotypes were previously reported in contemporary Bell Beaker individuals (R1b1a1b for sample CBV95, La-Bouche-ŕ-Vesle) and Bronze Age individuals from both northern (R1b1a1b1a1a2 for sample RIX2, Rixheim-Zac du Petit-Prince; R1b1a1b1a1a2a5 for sample OBE3626-1, Obernai PAEI) and southern France (R1b1a1b1a1a for sample PIR3116B Rec de Ligno).

    This may reflect admixture from incoming steppe herders that, around that same time, have almost completely replaced other Y chromosome haplotypes in Iberian populations. Haplogroup I2a1 was previously found among various hunter-gatherer groups from Europe.

    According to this map, the highest percentage of WHG heritage that a modern European can have is 50%. The Western Hunter-Gatherer was a dark-skinned person with green eyes and dark hair that was also lactose intolerant.
    https://www.quora.com/What-does-a-mo...wers/212355335

    Haplogroup R is unevenly distributed in Polish population with the central part of the country marked by the highest frequencies. When hg R was divided into subhaplogroups, one can see that R1a is distributed mostly in the center part of Poland with a few regions in the west and east of the country. R1b is most widely distributed on the territory of Poland, reaching farther east and west. Interpolation map of haplogroup I shows that it is more evenly represented in the Polish population but some trends are indicated. The highest frequencies are observed in western Poland and in some regions of eastern Poland mostly in Podlaskie and Lublin voivodeships but reaching also eastern parts of Mazovia, western parts of Warmian–Mazurian, and almost all Subcarpathian. Haplogroup N is observed mostly in all Podlaskie voivodeship. In the case of haplogroups E and J, the differences are not so highlighted, and a much greater diversity of frequencies is observed.
    Last edited by VikLevaPatel; 05-30-2022 at 12:54 AM.
    Y-DNA (P): R1b-S47 (Irish/Scot), E1b1b1 (Proto-Semitic), C1b-Z5896. mtDNA (M): W6 (Gotland/Sweden). Ancient (European) Origins: Indo-European (Metal Age Invader) 67%, Early/First/Neolithic European Farmer (EEF/FEF/ENF) 8–10%, WHG 3–7%; Turkey 20–30%; Caucasian-Anatolian-Balkan 40–43%; Volga Region 18–20%; Ukrainian 11–12%; Viking 10%; Scandinavian 6–7% EHG–Steppe: Corded Ware 28–34, Yamnaya (Steppe Pastoralist) 23–25%, Bell Beaker 22–24%; Steppe to SCAsian 20–23%; Euro HG 11-12% CHG/Iran: Caucasus (CHG) 31–33%; Iran_N 54–60%; IVC 64-67%


  6. #56
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    Lightbulb WHG ancestry

    According to this map, the highest percentage of WHG heritage that a modern European can have is 50%. The Western Hunter-Gatherer was a dark-skinned person with green eyes and dark hair that was also lactose intolerant.
    https://www.quora.com/What-does-a-mo...wers/212355335
    This certainly seems correct as far as I can now tell.

    Scores may change, of course, and, most likely, will decrease, especially once we have the results of various admixes or calculators that include the "WHG" category and compare them against each other.

    Genoplot Kurdish Iranian Neolithic K6: https://i.ibb.co/wczsyY0/west.png, https://i.ibb.co/BCRqkpB/nat.png

    ( British_English )| WHG, Natufian, Iran...

    WHG

    British English 47.2
    Ukrainian 46.88
    German 41.5
    Last edited by VikLevaPatel; 06-06-2022 at 02:56 AM.
    Y-DNA (P): R1b-S47 (Irish/Scot), E1b1b1 (Proto-Semitic), C1b-Z5896. mtDNA (M): W6 (Gotland/Sweden). Ancient (European) Origins: Indo-European (Metal Age Invader) 67%, Early/First/Neolithic European Farmer (EEF/FEF/ENF) 8–10%, WHG 3–7%; Turkey 20–30%; Caucasian-Anatolian-Balkan 40–43%; Volga Region 18–20%; Ukrainian 11–12%; Viking 10%; Scandinavian 6–7% EHG–Steppe: Corded Ware 28–34, Yamnaya (Steppe Pastoralist) 23–25%, Bell Beaker 22–24%; Steppe to SCAsian 20–23%; Euro HG 11-12% CHG/Iran: Caucasus (CHG) 31–33%; Iran_N 54–60%; IVC 64-67%


  7. #57
    "A Genetically Superior Caste." Prof. Gidwani, UMN Apricity Funding Member
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    Lightbulb Samara EHG hunter-gatherer

    Population interactions between Anatolia, mainland Europe, and the Eurasian steppe

    Genome-wide patterns of selection in 230 ancient Eurasians

    The most recent synthesis of European prehistory 8,000-3,000 years ago presents the following reconstruction.

    Before the advent of farming, Europe was populated by at least three different groups of hunter-gatherers.

    Western European hunter-gatherers (WHG) were widely distributed in Luxembourg, Iberia, and Hungary. Eastern European hunter-gatherers (EHG) lived in far eastern Europe (Russia), including both the steppe (Samara region) and Karelia. Scandinavian hunter-gatherers (SHG) from Sweden can be modeled as a mixture of WHG and EHG and persisted in Scandinavia until after ~5,000 years ago.

    EHG are distinguished by a greater affinity than either WHG or SHG to Native Americans and to the ~24,000-year old Mal’ta (MA1) individual from Siberia, making them a proximate source for the “Ancient North Eurasian” ancestry present in subsequent Europeans.

    doi:10.1038/nature16152

    All European hunter-gatherers were outside the range of genetic variation in present-day Europeans, but are genetically closest to present-day northern Europeans.

    The Samara hunter gatherer R1b sample which they found, which is ancestral to and therefore older than Yamnaya had blond hair and blue eyes.

    Also fair features, such as light eyes, are the only pan-Indo-European feature, found in nearly every Indo-European group if even at low levels among non-Euros (such as among high caste Indians, Kurds, etc.)

    Those European groups with the most "steppe" DNA, such as Irish, Scots, Norwegians, Lithuanians, and certain Russians, are also all fair groups.
    https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/threa...744/#348612822

    See Also: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7533603
    Last edited by VikLevaPatel; 07-02-2022 at 01:10 AM. Reason: Euro hunter-gatherers
    Y-DNA (P): R1b-S47 (Irish/Scot), E1b1b1 (Proto-Semitic), C1b-Z5896. mtDNA (M): W6 (Gotland/Sweden). Ancient (European) Origins: Indo-European (Metal Age Invader) 67%, Early/First/Neolithic European Farmer (EEF/FEF/ENF) 8–10%, WHG 3–7%; Turkey 20–30%; Caucasian-Anatolian-Balkan 40–43%; Volga Region 18–20%; Ukrainian 11–12%; Viking 10%; Scandinavian 6–7% EHG–Steppe: Corded Ware 28–34, Yamnaya (Steppe Pastoralist) 23–25%, Bell Beaker 22–24%; Steppe to SCAsian 20–23%; Euro HG 11-12% CHG/Iran: Caucasus (CHG) 31–33%; Iran_N 54–60%; IVC 64-67%


  8. #58
    Veteran Member billErobreren's Avatar
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    Kind of had the idea they had more to do with Illyrians, actually older than their respective ethno-linguistic groups, to be honest
    ______________

  9. #59
    "A Genetically Superior Caste." Prof. Gidwani, UMN Apricity Funding Member
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    VikLevaPatel's Avatar
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    Gujarāti (Leva) Pātidār. Caste (Jāt): Leva/Lewa Patel of Central Gujarat
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    Iran_N, IVC-IRN, ANE-NEA, EEF, Yamnaya, Afanasevo, Bell Beaker, Corded Ware, Sintashta,, Andronovo
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    Question Stone Age (Old and New or Paleolithic and Neolithic) Continuity?

    The current debate really boils down to whether Europeans are genetically of Paleolithic or Neolithic origin. But genetic analyses can be tricky, and various genetic studies and models and analyses have at different times given conflicting results and conflicting versions of the truth. It is true that the hunter‐gatherer groups of Northern Europe were characterized by low genetic diversity, and it's also equally if not more true that no significant evidence of gene flow from farmers has been observed in Northern European or Nordic Hunter-Gatherers. Even though the Scandinavian farmers show evidence of assimilation of hunter‐gatherer genetic components on the background of general affinities to Southern European populations, as noted by O'Rourke (2019). Kevin MacDonald, for one, sees that there is an "ethnic basis" for Western Individualism, and goes on to state that "European populations who presumably evolved in the cold and cloudy environments of the North for 40,000 years developed not just blond hair and blue eyes but temperaments and life style preferences to go with it." Not only that, but "these populations were hunters and gatherers, not agriculturalists." Of course, there is a significant counter-argument here. And not to mention that there are other significant factors at play. On the contrary, as observed by Dennis H. O'Rourke (2019), the spread of the Neolithic in Europe and the interactions between the first farmers and the hunter‐gatherer groups have turned out to be more complex and complicated and challenging than initially thought. A major part of the genetic diversity in Europe, however, appears to derive from more recent gene flow during and after the Neolithic. And I have to agree with O'Rourke's view and assessment that the agreeing autosomal DNA evidence bears witness to some but not major levels of continuity between the Mesolithic hunter‐gatherers and the present‐day populations of Europe. There is some data, of course, that lends weight to the arguments for a Paleolithic origin of Europeans, but it is important to remember that the Neolithic dispersals had different intensities and impact upon different populations of Europe. The data indeed suggest that the Neolithic expansion into Europe occurred in multiple steps or phases and independently of each other. This stands in contrast to the classical wave-of-advance model and to the view that this wave of first farmers established its genetic profile and its demographic supremacy ever since. Moreover, as noted by Naruya Saitou (2021), there is a dual model of Neolithic spread: acculturation in Central Europe and demic diffusion in southern Europe. Moreover, results reveal a clear and consistent signal of admixture in Northern Europeans involving at least two distinct sources, one of which has been shown to be closely related to extant Basque and Sardinian populations, with the other, and this is the most interesting part, showing highest affinities to present‐day populations of Northeast Asia and the Americas. Two main genome components become apparent, corresponding to the contributions of the first, Paleolithic Europeans, and the early Neolithic farmers, the second component decreasing from east to west, as predicted by a model or an estimator in which the alleles of Neolithic immigrants from the Near East got diluted during an expansion towards the Northwest. This map from the K35 calculator available at GenePlaza comes in especially handy in this regard. The map bears witness, moreover, to this relationship. Again, as noted by Dennis H. O'Rourke:

    The genetic landscape of Europe before the onset of the Neolithic was highly homogeneous. While the Neolithic was a period of at least four major genetic changes, and the genetic profile of the earliest farmers became substantially altered in the Middle Neolithic.

    Furthermore, as pointed out by Stoneking (2016), estimates of the genetic contribution of Neolithic farmers to the present-day European population range from less than 15% to more than 70%. But even more so, you could potentially say that the major component of the European gene pool might have derived from Near Eastern Neolithic farmers rather than indigenous Mesolithic foragers, as the authors, Lolita Nikolova, ‎Marco Merlini, ‎and Alexandra Comsa, note in their book "Western-Pontic Culture Ambience and Pattern."

    Last edited by VikLevaPatel; 08-27-2022 at 03:28 AM.
    Y-DNA (P): R1b-S47 (Irish/Scot), E1b1b1 (Proto-Semitic), C1b-Z5896. mtDNA (M): W6 (Gotland/Sweden). Ancient (European) Origins: Indo-European (Metal Age Invader) 67%, Early/First/Neolithic European Farmer (EEF/FEF/ENF) 8–10%, WHG 3–7%; Turkey 20–30%; Caucasian-Anatolian-Balkan 40–43%; Volga Region 18–20%; Ukrainian 11–12%; Viking 10%; Scandinavian 6–7% EHG–Steppe: Corded Ware 28–34, Yamnaya (Steppe Pastoralist) 23–25%, Bell Beaker 22–24%; Steppe to SCAsian 20–23%; Euro HG 11-12% CHG/Iran: Caucasus (CHG) 31–33%; Iran_N 54–60%; IVC 64-67%


  10. #60
    Veteran Member Varda's Avatar
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