About Romani diaspora

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 09-08-2021, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

I'd rather hijack this thread than create a new one for one question since I dislike that very much.

Is it safe to assume that 3+% South_Asian and 2+% South_Central_Asian on K36 means genuine Romani ancestry?

Yep, it's a high K calculator, so it's probably credible. I'm not sure about South Central Asian. It seems like Iran Neolithic type of ancestry rather than pure Indian.
The full Romas that score 24-25% South Asian on K13 still retain similar percentages for the South Asian component on K36. South Central Asian is usually 1/3rd to 1/4th of that amount.
And there are plenty of people who are not Romas and score 0% South Asian, but they have some trace in South Central Asian.

Some examples of full Romas

Spoiler!

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 09-08-2021, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by ixulescu

You can bet their present day descendants score above 2% South Asian, yet they have no Gypsy ancestry.

Bet is a strong word. People with genuine Roma ancestry will have plenty of full Roma matches near the top, just like those with Ashkenazi Jewish. This is very easy to verify.

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 09-08-2021, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Bigby

And how many 5% south asian "romanians" he found out of those hundreds? You've nailed your own coffin.
https://i.ibb.co/v1ZCz95/image.png

30 out of 1.268 samples in the database are 1/4 Roma genetically
16 - 1/2
18 - full

**Leto** · 09-08-2021, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by CommonSense

Did you see her ethnicity estimate from 23andMe or whatever company she tested with? The scores of the components you highlighted are quite unusual.

No, unfortunately. I'd like to see her 23andme myself.

**Leto** · 09-08-2021, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Yep, it's a high K calculator, so it's probably credible. I'm not sure about South Central Asian. It seems like Iran Neolithic type of ancestry rather than pure Indian.
The full Romas that score 24-25% South Asian on K13 still retain similar percentages for the South Asian component on K36. South Central Asian is usually 1/3rd to 1/4th of that amount.
And there are plenty of people who are not Romas and score 0% South Asian, but they have some trace in South Central Asian.

Some examples of full Romas

Spoiler!

I see. Well, there is no shortage of Romani kits on Gedmatch (plenty of adoptees with Western names). 3% means ca. 1/8 Romani, a bit less than what people like Impaler get. I wonder how much your 1/4 Romani average would be.

**Lucas** · 09-08-2021, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

Here's the full result

Amerindian 0.08 Pct
Arabian -
Armenian -
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 3.48 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan -
East_Central_Asian 1.81 Pct
East_Central_Euro 18.2 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 16.75 Pct
Fennoscandian 26.01 Pct
French -
Iberian 4.31 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian -
Malayan -
Near_Eastern -
North_African -
North_Atlantic 8 Pct
North_Caucasian 4.18 Pct
North_Sea 8.13 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian 0.25 Pct
South_Asian 3.27 Pct
South_Central_Asian 2.26 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 3.25 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med -

I can say rather tiny Gypsy admixture really. 5-6% isn't visible in pheno (it is not SSA) so could be.

**Peterski** · 09-08-2021, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Some examples of full Romas

I made an average from those 3 and called it Romania_Roma. Interesting why are they closer to Gitanos than to Yugoslav Roma?:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
ES_Spain-Gitanos
0.9123651
BIH_Yugoslavia-Roma
0.9959729
PRT_Portugal-Gitanos
1.1762806
(...)

**~~Bigby~~** · 09-08-2021, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

30 out of 1.268 samples in the database are 1/4 Roma genetically
16 - 1/2
18 - full

64 out of 1.2k, so about 5% and keep in mind that gippos are poorer and far less interested in this anthro stuff.

What is your estimation for the gippo population of Romania(4-5% south asian +), I wager not below 10%, but for some reasons ixulescu likes to not just downplay this but also make it appear like they're ancient MENA/turkics remainings and that our actual "very tiny" gipsy population is actually integrated even.

**Leto** · 09-08-2021, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Lucas

I can say rather tiny Gypsy admixture really. 5-6% isn't visible in pheno (it is not SSA) so could be.

Well, even some half Tziganes can be white-passing because they are a mixed population to begin with. So with more distant Tzigane roots one can look as white as a Waffen-SS soldier.

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 09-08-2021, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Tomenable

I made an average from those 3 and called it Romania_Roma. Interesting why are they closer to Gitanos than to Yugoslav Roma?:

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
ES_Spain-Gitanos
0.9123651
BIH_Yugoslavia-Roma
0.9959729
PRT_Portugal-Gitanos
1.1762806
(...)

K36 is probably not the best calculator for distance checking. Everyone gets high distances like above, not only Romas.