Neolithic and Bronze Age samples from Croatia

[Ajeje Brazorf]

They were most similar to Iron Age Italics/Latins. Both of these plot closest to modern northern Italians, but they had more WHG, less steppe and less Natufian than them iirc.
Kind of like ancient south-western Europeans. Specific clades of R1b L23 seem to be some of Illyrian founding lineages.

Etruscans/Latins had higher WHG, EEF and less Steppe, this superficially brings them closer to Iberians rather than to modern-day North Italians, who because of their eastern pull (more Steppe, more CHG, more Iran_N) instead are more similar to the Balkans of that time.

[Leto]

They were most similar to Iron Age Italics/Latins. Both of these plot closest to modern northern Italians, but they had more WHG, less steppe and less Natufian than them iirc.
Kind of like ancient south-western Europeans. Specific clades of R1b L23 seem to be some of Illyrian founding lineages.

I guess like a Lombardian or Piedmontese with a Sardinian grandparent. Still undoubtedly white of course.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

How much Steppe ancestry did the Illyrians have? More than modern Southern Italians (20-25%)? They were an Indo-European people after all.

The closest item on Global25 scores something like:

Target: ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR33
Distance: 3.0738% / 0.03073839
60.6 TUR_Barcin_N
32.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.8 WHG
0.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

[Leto]

The closest item on Global25 scores something like:

Target: ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity:RMPR33
Distance: 3.0738% / 0.03073839
60.6 TUR_Barcin_N
32.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.8 WHG
0.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

As far as I know an average Spaniard is slightly less Steppe than that.

So who were the supposedly Cypriot-like people in the pre-Slavic Balkans? People assume that because some South Slavs score Ukrainian + Cypriot on Eurogenes.

[Jana]

So who were the supposedly Cypriot-like people in the pre-Slavic Balkans? People assume that because some South Slavs score Ukrainian + Cypriot on Eurogenes.

That's the thing. I don't think such modeling is realistic at all.

Here is how actual Illyrian from Dalmatia scores:

Target: HRV_IA_I3313
Distance: 3.8417% / 0.03841726

61.2 TUR_Barcin_N
34.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.0 WHG

[Leto]

That's the thing. I don't think such modeling is realistic at all.

Here is how actual Illyrian from Dalmatia scores:

Target: HRV_IA_I3313
Distance: 3.8417% / 0.03841726

61.2 TUR_Barcin_N
34.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.0 WHG

I agree. I don't believe a third of Europe was full of some semi-Jews or Sicilians before the Slavs rolled in

[Jana]

I agree. I don't believe a third of Europe was full of some semi-Jews or Sicilians before the Slavs rolled in

We really need more IA samples from the region but best would be those from antiquity exactly before Slavic arrival.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

As far as I know an average Spaniard is slightly less Steppe than that.

Yes, it's like I said before.

Italics, Etruscans = more EEF, more WHG, less Steppe, less CHG, less Iran_N = more superficially similar to Iberians and Basques.

Etruscan_scaled,0.124038,0.1582403,0.0363389,-0.0159512,0.049232,-0.0098542,-0.0009099,-0.0037218,0.0233315,0.0440357,0.0005039,0.0109902,-0.0203626,-0.0063413,-0.0028571,-0.0032569,0.0032863,0.0008218,0.0018403,-0.0039699,0.0010814,0.0045815,-0.0024966,-0.0042328,0.00074

Distance to:	Etruscan_scaled
0.02891666	Spanish_Menorca
0.02950220	French_Corsica
0.03088873	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03134690	Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03140120	Italian_Bergamo
0.03227619	Spanish_Baleares
0.03236002	Spanish_Peri-Barcelona

Balkans, Illyrians = less EEF, less WHG, more Steppe, more CHG, more Iran_N = more superficially similar to modern North Italians.

Balkanian/Illyrian_scaled,0.126628,0.146998,0.0317725,-0.01170875,0.0313135,-0.00557775,-0.0038775,0.0001155,0.00598225,0.02756325,0.002517,0.009704,-0.01568375,-0.0051265,-0.00675225,-0.00139225,0.00260775,0.0014885,0.00380225,-0.01169325,-0.0046795,0.003555,-0.0013865,0.0031025,-0.00143675

Distance to:	Balkanian/Illyrian_scaled
0.01566750	Italian_Bergamo
0.01770440	Italian_Veneto
0.01937150	Italian_Lombardy
0.01938024	Italian_Piedmont
0.02064359	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02334661	Swiss_Italian

So who were the supposedly Cypriot-like people in the pre-Slavic Balkans? People assume that because some South Slavs score Ukrainian + Cypriot on Eurogenes.

No one native to the Balkans was Cyprian-like before the arrival of the Slavs, perhaps not even the Greeks were but we are not completely sure about that.

The pre-Slavic Balkanians seem to have shifted a bit further south, ending up looking like today's central Italians.

Target: Croatian
Distance: 0.0049% / 0.00492042 | R2P
70.4	Polish
29.6	Italian_Umbria

Target: Serbian
Distance: 0.0080% / 0.00799395 | R3P
42.5	Lithuanian_RA
32.6	Italian_Lombardy
24.9	Greek_Kos

[Leto]

Most Greeks were probably like Cretans and Greek Islanders before 500 AD.

[Tongio]

What about the dalmatian kid(age 5-7 years old) found in a kurgan, dated from late bronze age 1631-1521 BCE (~3591 ybp),
male, Y-DNA haplogroup J2b-L283>>Y15058.

He is individual I4331

Gray : Anatolian farmer
Red : Eastern hunter gatherer
Blue : Western hunter gatherer
link of source : https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/135616v1.full

Was he a Illyrian, or pre Illyrian do you guys know?