Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 31

Thread: Neolithic and Bronze Age samples from Croatia

  1. #11
    Veteran Member Hektor12's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 04:49 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Moderate member of the Uralic Cluster
    Ethnicity
    Turkish
    Ancestry
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kınık_(tribe)
    Country
    Turkey
    Taxonomy
    Turano-Pontid and slight Carpathid
    Politics
    Zurückhaltung
    Religion
    Religions are mass-scale Stockholm syndromes
    Relationship Status
    We will run and scream
    Gender
    Posts
    5,844
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,215
    Given: 4,457

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stearsolina View Post
    Distance to: Croatia_Roman

    3.55540952 48.60% Afrikaner + 51.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.59374872 62.00% Afrikaner + 38.00% Turk_North_West
    3.65994304 73.40% Swiss_German + 26.60% Turkmen
    3.72179723 72.60% French_Alsace + 27.40% Turkmen
    3.80025357 61.40% German + 38.60% Turk_North_West
    3.84917022 64.80% German + 35.20% Turk_South
    3.86050008 38.80% Irish + 61.20% Turk_Trakya
    3.86088461 38.20% Irish_Munster + 61.80% Turk_Trakya
    3.86167788 39.60% Irish_Leinster + 60.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.86191818 38.60% Irish_Connacht + 61.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.88754134 38.00% Irish_Ulster + 62.00% Turk_Trakya
    3.89949279 40.00% Scottish_East + 60.00% Turk_Trakya
    3.90011750 39.60% Scottish_Southwest + 60.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.90186776 40.00% Scottish_North_Highlands + 60.00% Turk_Trakya
    3.91011647 43.00% French_Northwest + 57.00% Turk_Trakya
    3.92290549 41.80% English_Midlands + 58.20% Turk_Trakya
    3.92618268 62.00% Turk_Trakya + 38.00% West_Scottish
    3.93351677 42.60% English_Southeast + 57.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.93395103 39.80% Scottish + 60.20% Turk_Trakya
    3.94290716 41.40% English_Southwest + 58.60% Turk_Trakya
    3.94411665 64.40% German + 35.60% Turk_Anatolia
    3.94586960 41.60% English + 58.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.95283826 59.60% Turk_Trakya + 40.40% Welsh
    3.96861212 39.60% Scottish_Northeast + 60.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.97593565 40.60% English_North + 59.40% Turk_Trakya
    Give us Croatia back, Slav!

  2. #12
    Veteran Member Apricity Funding Member
    "Friend of Apricity"

    rothaer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Eastern German
    Country
    Germany
    Gender
    Posts
    5,926
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6,292
    Given: 6,656

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote from the paper:

    "Our single individual from Popova zemlja, Croatia_Pop_RomanP, provides rare genomic data for Croatia after the Bronze Age33. (Table 1, Fig. 4a, Supplementary Table S1). We find this individual clustering with present-day populations of Croatia, Bulgaria and Romania in PCA and UMAP space (Figs. 2, 3c).We investigated this clustering with f4-statistics and could confirm cladality of this individual with present-day Croatians compared to other ancient and present-day populations in Europe (Supplementary Table S7). We then tested population continuity with qpWave, and found Croatia_RomanP was consistent with forming a genetic clade with present-day Croatians, as well as Bulgarians or Hungarians (p = 0.78 respectively) (Supplementary Table S4). Although based on a single individual who may or may not be representative for the wider population in that time period, this data point indicates that a broadly present-day genetic signature had already formed by Roman times, and any further population turnovers were not as significant as previous ones.

    That a broadly present-day genetic signature had already formed in Roman times is likely to be true, though such a conclusion based on n=1 does not sound seriously grounded. But the following highlightened statement is obviously nonsense. The Slavic input that was not yet in Roman times, but today, can easily be measured and is roughly 50% in the Balkans. There was no genetic change with such a high amont between Bronze age and Roman times.

  3. #13
    Veteran Member Token's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last Online
    Today @ 03:06 AM
    Ethnicity
    Andean highlander
    Country
    Bolivia
    Gender
    Posts
    7,038
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 7,317
    Given: 2,697

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stearsolina View Post
    K13 breakdown for Croatian Roman sample. And they dared to claim it is genetically like modern Croats Good lesson that just become something may be academic paper, it doesn't need to have credibility.

    Target: Croatia_Roman
    Distance: 1.3627% / 1.36270920 | ADC: 0.25x RC

    39.4 Italian_Friuli_VG
    20.1 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
    20.0 Afrikaner
    16.6 Tajik_Mountain
    2.2 Malay
    1.7 Pamiri_Tajikistan

    Target: Croatia_Roman
    Distance: 1.9718% / 1.97183825 | R3P

    48.2 Afrikaner
    32.0 Macedonian_North
    19.8 Turkmen

    Target: Croatia_Roman
    Distance: 1.4325% / 1.43251817 | R4P

    55.7 German_South
    29.1 Turk_Deliorman
    12.0 Turkmen
    3.2 Austroasiatic_Ho

    Distance to: Croatia_Roman

    3.55540952 48.60% Afrikaner + 51.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.59374872 62.00% Afrikaner + 38.00% Turk_North_West
    3.65994304 73.40% Swiss_German + 26.60% Turkmen
    3.72179723 72.60% French_Alsace + 27.40% Turkmen
    3.80025357 61.40% German + 38.60% Turk_North_West
    3.84917022 64.80% German + 35.20% Turk_South
    3.86050008 38.80% Irish + 61.20% Turk_Trakya
    3.86088461 38.20% Irish_Munster + 61.80% Turk_Trakya
    3.86167788 39.60% Irish_Leinster + 60.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.86191818 38.60% Irish_Connacht + 61.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.88754134 38.00% Irish_Ulster + 62.00% Turk_Trakya
    3.89949279 40.00% Scottish_East + 60.00% Turk_Trakya
    3.90011750 39.60% Scottish_Southwest + 60.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.90186776 40.00% Scottish_North_Highlands + 60.00% Turk_Trakya
    3.91011647 43.00% French_Northwest + 57.00% Turk_Trakya
    3.92290549 41.80% English_Midlands + 58.20% Turk_Trakya
    3.92618268 62.00% Turk_Trakya + 38.00% West_Scottish
    3.93351677 42.60% English_Southeast + 57.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.93395103 39.80% Scottish + 60.20% Turk_Trakya
    3.94290716 41.40% English_Southwest + 58.60% Turk_Trakya
    3.94411665 64.40% German + 35.60% Turk_Anatolia
    3.94586960 41.60% English + 58.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.95283826 59.60% Turk_Trakya + 40.40% Welsh
    3.96861212 39.60% Scottish_Northeast + 60.40% Turk_Trakya
    3.97593565 40.60% English_North + 59.40% Turk_Trakya
    Looks like he has a lot of Gothic or another kind of Germanic ancestry too.

  4. #14
    Veteran Member CommonSense's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Last Online
    02-24-2024 @ 11:53 PM
    Location
    Belgrade
    Meta-Ethnicity
    South Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Serbian
    Ancestry
    81.25% Serbian, 12.5% Croatian, 6.25% Romanian
    Country
    Serbia
    Y-DNA
    G-Y225016
    mtDNA
    H12a*
    Taxonomy
    Pontid + Alpine/Gorid
    Religion
    Agnosticism
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Posts
    9,565
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 8,860
    Given: 8,987

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Instead of discussing some of their flawed conclusions, I'd rather look at the bigger picture we now possess, considering the large amount of samples that have been analyzed thus far. For instance, it's interesting how steppe-related ancestry was already present in the territory of modern-day Croatia in the Copper Age, while in the territory of present-day Bulgaria it seems to have expanded much later, in the Bronze Age. And it's notable how there were no significant admixture events in Croatia since the Copper Age all the way to the late Bronze Age. All we need now are a couple of Iron Age samples (the single one from Bulgaria isn't enough) to have a clear and complete view of the genetic structure of the pre-Roman Balkans.


  5. #15
    Veteran Member CommonSense's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Last Online
    02-24-2024 @ 11:53 PM
    Location
    Belgrade
    Meta-Ethnicity
    South Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Serbian
    Ancestry
    81.25% Serbian, 12.5% Croatian, 6.25% Romanian
    Country
    Serbia
    Y-DNA
    G-Y225016
    mtDNA
    H12a*
    Taxonomy
    Pontid + Alpine/Gorid
    Religion
    Agnosticism
    Age
    27
    Gender
    Posts
    9,565
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 8,860
    Given: 8,987

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    ...
    Last edited by CommonSense; 08-27-2021 at 07:54 PM. Reason: double post

  6. #16
    Veteran Member Ajeje Brazorf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 11:02 PM
    Ethnicity
    Italian‏‏‎
    Country
    Italy
    Gender
    Posts
    2,282
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,152
    Given: 8

    1 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Varda View Post
    Interesting, there is no E-V13. Same as in recent study of the samples of Illyrian tribe Daunians from southern Italy https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?t...1285#msg161285
    Is the affiliation of Daunians to the Illyrians secure? These are the Dodecad K12b results of the samples, on whose names I also wrote the date and coverage percentage (they are pretty much all garbage except for the first one).

    Code:
    Daunian_IA:ORD009_517BC_Quality=70.05%,4.03,0.65,1.42,0.98,38.29,23.77,0,0,7.95,0,22.52,0.39
    Daunian_IA:ORD006_633BC_Quality=13.78%,0,0,0,2.54,41.99,25.03,0,0,8.55,0,21.11,0.78
    Daunian_IA:SAL003_374BC_Quality=12.56%,0,0,1.91,0,39.06,17.5,0,0,7.93,0,33.23,0.38
    Daunian_IA:ORD014_525BC_Quality=12.32%,0,2.06,4.08,0,43.2,28.47,0.29,0,2.97,0,18.93,0
    Daunian_IA:SGR002_571BC_Quality=11.42%,1.02,0.6,2.92,0,45.47,29.36,0,0.66,5.54,0,14.06,0.37
    Daunian_IA:ORD011_637BC_Quality=10.15%,0,0,0,0,41.49,23.76,0,0,8.92,0.98,24.85,0
    Daunian_IA:SGR003_283BC_Quality=6.66%,2.69,0,1.74,2.68,40.79,15.65,0,1.55,7.31,0,27.6,0
    Daunian_IA:SAL001_1157BC_Quality=5.61%,0,0,3.78,3.04,43.72,32.79,0,3.1,2.05,0,11.51,0
    Daunian_IA:SAL007_650BC_Quality=5.57%,4.63,0,0,0,53.35,16.94,0,0,6.74,0,18.34,0
    Daunian_IA:SAL011_275BC_Quality=5.40%,8.8,0,0.77,0.26,61.26,14.72,0,0,5.84,0,8.35,0
    Daunian_IA:ORD019_450BC_Quality=5.33%,1.73,0,0.9,0,38.01,22.88,2.51,0,0,0,33.46,0.52
    Daunian_IA:ORD004_434BC_Quality=4.87%,0,0,0,0,44.67,29.85,0,0,0.14,0,22.4,2.95
    Daunian_IA:ORD001_638BC_Quality=4.63%,2.13,0,3.17,1.09,29.5,31.57,0,0.75,9.39,1.76,20.64,0
    Daunian_IA:SAL010_650BC_Quality=3.40%,4.31,0,0,0.02,45.37,38.34,0,0,0,0,11.95,0
    Daunian_MA:ORD010_1088AD_Quality=66.86%,4.29,0,2.9,0,26.43,12.34,0,1.12,17.75,0,35.16,0
    Daunian_MA:SGR001_724AD_Quality=5.15%,9.06,4.24,0,2.32,23.85,12.46,0.86,3.12,3.86,0,40.22,0
    Code:
    Distance to:	Daunian_IA:ORD009_517BC_Quality=70.05%
    2.01910871	Italian_Liguria
    2.56245976	Hungary_BA:I7041:Olalde_2018
    2.79744526	Italian_Lombardy
    3.22854456	Italian_Emilia
    3.59342455	Italian_Piedmont
    3.67812452	C7-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R33:Antonio_2019
    4.09274969	Collegno23:Amorim_2018
    4.29454305	Szolad28:Amorim_2018
    4.29920923	N_Italian
    4.42649975	Italian_Tuscany
    4.51961282	Croatia_EMBA:I4332:Mathieson_2018
    4.60505157	Croatia_EMBA:I4331:Mathieson_2018
    4.63920252	Italian_Veneto
    4.64245625	Vucedol:I3499:Mathieson_2018
    4.65891618	MOK31:Zegarac_2021
    4.92696661	C7-Villa_Magna_MA:R55:Antonio_2019
    4.96452415	Croatia_LBA:I3313:Mathieson_2018

  7. #17
    account terminated.
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Last Online
    09-18-2023 @ 03:11 PM
    Ethnicity
    N/A
    Country
    Abkhazia
    Gender
    Posts
    48,380
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 52,720
    Given: 43,625

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    Is the affiliation of Daunians to the Illyrians secure? These are the Dodecad K12b results of the samples, on whose names I also wrote the date and coverage percentage (they are pretty much all garbage except for the first one).

    Code:
    Daunian_IA:ORD009_517BC_Quality=70.05%,4.03,0.65,1.42,0.98,38.29,23.77,0,0,7.95,0,22.52,0.39
    Daunian_IA:ORD006_633BC_Quality=13.78%,0,0,0,2.54,41.99,25.03,0,0,8.55,0,21.11,0.78
    Daunian_IA:SAL003_374BC_Quality=12.56%,0,0,1.91,0,39.06,17.5,0,0,7.93,0,33.23,0.38
    Daunian_IA:ORD014_525BC_Quality=12.32%,0,2.06,4.08,0,43.2,28.47,0.29,0,2.97,0,18.93,0
    Daunian_IA:SGR002_571BC_Quality=11.42%,1.02,0.6,2.92,0,45.47,29.36,0,0.66,5.54,0,14.06,0.37
    Daunian_IA:ORD011_637BC_Quality=10.15%,0,0,0,0,41.49,23.76,0,0,8.92,0.98,24.85,0
    Daunian_IA:SGR003_283BC_Quality=6.66%,2.69,0,1.74,2.68,40.79,15.65,0,1.55,7.31,0,27.6,0
    Daunian_IA:SAL001_1157BC_Quality=5.61%,0,0,3.78,3.04,43.72,32.79,0,3.1,2.05,0,11.51,0
    Daunian_IA:SAL007_650BC_Quality=5.57%,4.63,0,0,0,53.35,16.94,0,0,6.74,0,18.34,0
    Daunian_IA:SAL011_275BC_Quality=5.40%,8.8,0,0.77,0.26,61.26,14.72,0,0,5.84,0,8.35,0
    Daunian_IA:ORD019_450BC_Quality=5.33%,1.73,0,0.9,0,38.01,22.88,2.51,0,0,0,33.46,0.52
    Daunian_IA:ORD004_434BC_Quality=4.87%,0,0,0,0,44.67,29.85,0,0,0.14,0,22.4,2.95
    Daunian_IA:ORD001_638BC_Quality=4.63%,2.13,0,3.17,1.09,29.5,31.57,0,0.75,9.39,1.76,20.64,0
    Daunian_IA:SAL010_650BC_Quality=3.40%,4.31,0,0,0.02,45.37,38.34,0,0,0,0,11.95,0
    Daunian_MA:ORD010_1088AD_Quality=66.86%,4.29,0,2.9,0,26.43,12.34,0,1.12,17.75,0,35.16,0
    Daunian_MA:SGR001_724AD_Quality=5.15%,9.06,4.24,0,2.32,23.85,12.46,0.86,3.12,3.86,0,40.22,0
    Code:
    Distance to:	Daunian_IA:ORD009_517BC_Quality=70.05%
    2.01910871	Italian_Liguria
    2.56245976	Hungary_BA:I7041:Olalde_2018
    2.79744526	Italian_Lombardy
    3.22854456	Italian_Emilia
    3.59342455	Italian_Piedmont
    3.67812452	C7-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R33:Antonio_2019
    4.09274969	Collegno23:Amorim_2018
    4.29454305	Szolad28:Amorim_2018
    4.29920923	N_Italian
    4.42649975	Italian_Tuscany
    4.51961282	Croatia_EMBA:I4332:Mathieson_2018
    4.60505157	Croatia_EMBA:I4331:Mathieson_2018
    4.63920252	Italian_Veneto
    4.64245625	Vucedol:I3499:Mathieson_2018
    4.65891618	MOK31:Zegarac_2021
    4.92696661	C7-Villa_Magna_MA:R55:Antonio_2019
    4.96452415	Croatia_LBA:I3313:Mathieson_2018
    Looks quite Illyrian! Nice find!

    Towards the late Bronze Age (11th-10th centuries BC), Illyrian populations from the eastern Adriatic arrived in Apulia. The Illyrians in Italy, united with the pre-existing people and groups from the Aegean, probably from Crete, created the Iapygian civilization which consisted of three tribes: the Peucetians, Messapians and Daunians.The region was previously inhabited by Italic peoples of Southern Italy; among them are the Ausones/Oscans, Sabines, Lucani, Paeligni, Bruttii, Campanians, Aequi, Samnites and Frentani.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daunians

    This area was already occupied at the stone age. As commonly admitted, towards 1300 B.C. an Illyrian people, the Iapyges - to which, according to some sources, mycenians would have joined - settled down in Apulia, and later divided into three populations : the Daunians in the north, the Peucetians in the center, and the Messapians in the south. The tradition considers that the Ofanto river was the natural border between Daunia and Peucetia.
    The alleged Illyrian origins (see illyrii) of the latter receive archaeological support from the iron age graves at Monte Saraceno (Mattinata); there too, certain stone sēmata clearly stand in a genetic relationship to the characteristic Daunian stelae of the 7th and 6th cents., notable for the intricacies of their incised geometric patterns and erotic and other figured scenes. Relations with the other side of the Adriatic are again apparent in the distribution of Daunian pottery in the 6th and 5th cents.
    https://oxfordre.com/classics/view/1...9381135-e-2035

  8. #18
    account terminated.
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Last Online
    09-18-2023 @ 03:11 PM
    Ethnicity
    N/A
    Country
    Abkhazia
    Gender
    Posts
    48,380
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 52,720
    Given: 43,625

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Highest quality (first) sample plots close to west Balkan BA samples (and Szolad 28 from Roman age Hungary is possibly Illyrian too as he plots like them)

    Distance to: Daunian_IA:ORD009_517BC_Quality=70.05%

    2.56245976 Hungary_BA:I7041:Olalde_2018
    3.67812452 C7-Mausole_di_Augusto_Late_Antiquity:R33:Antonio_2019
    4.09274969 Collegno23:Amorim_2018
    4.29454305 Szolad28:Amorim_2018
    4.51961282 Croatia_EMBA:I4332:Mathieson_2018
    4.60505157 Croatia_EMBA:I4331:Mathieson_2018
    4.64245625 Vucedol:I3499:Mathieson_2018
    4.65891618 MOK31:Zegarac_2021

    4.92696661 C7-Villa_Magna_MA:R55:Antonio_2019
    4.96452415 Croatia_LBA:I3313:Mathieson_2018
    5.24433027 VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
    5.24764709 La_Tène_IA:ERS88:Brunel_2020
    5.30784325 Etruscan_IA:R474:Antonio_2019
    5.38990723 Burgweinting–Nord-West_II_(ADH)_388-532calADA_Female:NW54:Veeramah_2018
    5.44865121 Szolad43:Amorim_2018
    5.48566313 Protovillanovan_IA:R1:Antonio_2019
    5.60266901 Collegno36:Amorim_2018
    5.97239483 C7-Crypta_Balbi_Late_Antiquity:R110:Antonio_2019
    6.07836327 I8475:Olalde_2019
    6.33233764 I3593:Olalde_2018
    6.59052350 MOK13:Zegarac_2021
    6.76559680 I7040:Olalde_2018
    6.86318439 Bulgaria_EBA:I2176:Mathieson_2018
    7.12835886 Hungary_BA:I7043:Olalde_2018
    7.24323823 Beaker_Central_Europe:I2364:Olalde_2018
    Last edited by Jana; 12-06-2021 at 07:29 PM.

  9. #19
    Not even a member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 09:10 PM
    Meta-Ethnicity
    Indo-European, Slavic
    Ethnicity
    Russian
    Country
    Brunei
    Region
    Russian Turkestan General Governorship
    Y-DNA
    R1a-YP270
    Religion
    Orthodox
    Gender
    Posts
    24,131
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 15,584
    Given: 8,906

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    How much Steppe ancestry did the Illyrians have? More than modern Southern Italians (20-25%)? They were an Indo-European people after all.

  10. #20
    account terminated.
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Last Online
    09-18-2023 @ 03:11 PM
    Ethnicity
    N/A
    Country
    Abkhazia
    Gender
    Posts
    48,380
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 52,720
    Given: 43,625

    0 Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    How much Steppe ancestry did the Illyrians have? More than modern Southern Italians (20-25%)? They were an Indo-European people after all.
    They were most similar to Iron Age Italics/Latins. Both of these plot closest to modern northern Italians, but they had more WHG, less steppe and less Natufian than them iirc.
    Kind of like ancient south-western Europeans. Specific clades of R1b L23 seem to be some of Illyrian founding lineages.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. New early bronze age serbian samples [G25]
    By andre in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 03-14-2021, 09:52 PM
  2. French Bronze and Iron Age G25 samples
    By Creoda in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 01-29-2021, 11:24 AM
  3. Neolithic & Bronze Age Global 25
    By harutsafaryan07 in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-20-2019, 03:35 PM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-12-2018, 05:07 PM
  5. Bronze Age & Neolithic question?
    By Herb3. in forum Autosomal DNA
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-24-2017, 01:40 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •