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Thread: Photos of Maris from 1995-2004

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCARtem View Post
    These are the results of an autosomal analysis (Family Finder) of an Eastern Mari from FTDNA. The Eastern Mari never contacted or mixed with the Russians. And the presence of Eastern Slavs in his test results does not mean mixing with Russians, but on the contrary, speaks of the presence of ancient Indo-European roots, when Russians as an ethnic group did not exist yet.
    Spoiler!
    Or it could be that the Eastern Europe component also represents old Northeastern European HG ancestry.

    On Eurogenes K15 updated, the Eastern_Euro component peaks in Maris and Chuvashes, but it's the fourth highest in Selkups (https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k15-vahaduo.htm):

    38.4 Mari
    36.1 Chuvash
    29.1 Erzya
    28.2 Selkup
    26.8 Kargopol_Russian
    24.0 Latvian
    23.8 RU_Pinega
    23.8 East_Finnish
    23.6 Ket
    22.6 Shors
    22.5 Southwest_Russian
    22.5 Estonian_Polish
    22.3 Ukraine_East
    22.2 Ukrainian_Belgorod
    22.2 Tatar
    21.2 Lithuanian
    21.2 Belorussian
    20.7 Estonian
    20.4 Russian_Smolensk
    20.1 Polish_Masuria
    19.9 Polish_Kielce
    19.9 Polish
    19.3 Ukrainian_Kiev_Avg
    18.8 Finnish

  2. #22
    Senior Member Nanushka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCARtem View Post
    My point of view is that many people specifically ignore the facts of the existence of an ancient Indo-European heritage among the peoples living in the Volga region and the Urals and speaking the Finno-Ugric and Turkic languages. People like you like to write that the representatives of those peoples of the Volga region and the Urals, who do not look like the stereotypical representatives of their peoples, are the result of mixing with the Russians. And people like travv believe that this is the result of degeneration. I believe that this is the result of the manifestation after generations of recessive genes that are responsible for the Caucasoid traits that the ancient Indo-Europeans (Fatyanovo culture, Scythians, Sarmatians, Cimmerians, Sakes) possessed, who once lived in the Volga region and the Urals and were assimilated by the Finno-Ugric and Turkic peoples who came.
    The existence of Scythians/Sakhas, Sarmatians and Kimmerians etc in vast Eurasia from iron age to 2nd century AD is a fact but it is never proven that they were PIE, they had many branches but their most characteristics are attributed to proto-Turkics. Early medieval sources like Priscus informs that Attila spoke Scythian language and Tamerlan was referred to as 'the king of Scythians' while there have been many valid readings of the Schyhian bowl found in Issyk kurgan in Turkish

    Tbh I dont see specifically round 'woggy' eyes in Maris and other Finn-Ugrics but if there are any, the reason must be different from Scythians

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komintasavalta View Post
    Or it could be that the Eastern Europe component also represents old Northeastern European HG ancestry.

    On Eurogenes K15 updated, the Eastern_Euro component peaks in Maris and Chuvashes, but it's the fourth highest in Selkups (https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k15-vahaduo.htm):

    38.4 Mari
    36.1 Chuvash
    29.1 Erzya
    28.2 Selkup
    26.8 Kargopol_Russian
    24.0 Latvian
    23.8 RU_Pinega
    23.8 East_Finnish
    23.6 Ket
    22.6 Shors
    22.5 Southwest_Russian
    22.5 Estonian_Polish
    22.3 Ukraine_East
    22.2 Ukrainian_Belgorod
    22.2 Tatar
    21.2 Lithuanian
    21.2 Belorussian
    20.7 Estonian
    20.4 Russian_Smolensk
    20.1 Polish_Masuria
    19.9 Polish_Kielce
    19.9 Polish
    19.3 Ukrainian_Kiev_Avg
    18.8 Finnish
    The eastern proportion of Finns falls into the Baltic segment, which is correct.

  4. #24
    The truth is somewhere out Sandis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCARtem View Post
    I believe that this is the result of the manifestation after generations of recessive genes that are responsible for the Caucasoid traits that the ancient Indo-Europeans (Fatyanovo culture, Scythians, Sarmatians, Cimmerians, Sakes) possessed, who once lived in the Volga region and the Urals and were assimilated by the Finno-Ugric and Turkic peoples who came.
    Many scientists believe that Fatyanovo–Balanovo culture was Baltic. Fatyanovo migrations correspond to regions with hydronyms of a Baltic language dialect. This is an explanation of Baltic loanwords in Finno-Volgaic languages.
    I recommend to read this article about historical migrations and genetics (inlcuding Fatyanovo, proto-Balts and proto-Iranians) which i found today:

    http://suduva.com/virdainas/proto.htm

    "People lie. The evidence doesn't lie".

    So, proto-Balts and proto-Iranians were the main source of early Indo-European origin in Volga region. Slavs appeared much later.
    Last edited by Sandis; 09-02-2021 at 07:56 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    The eastern proportion of Finns falls into the Baltic segment, which is correct.
    Yes, it's correct. I remember sample where Maris were close to Latvians from Cesis.
    Last edited by Sandis; 09-02-2021 at 07:45 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCARtem View Post
    These are the results of an autosomal analysis (Family Finder) of an Eastern Mari from FTDNA. The Eastern Mari never contacted or mixed with the Russians. And the presence of Eastern Slavs in his test results does not mean mixing with Russians, but on the contrary, speaks of the presence of ancient Indo-European roots, when Russians as an ethnic group did not exist yet.
    Hmm I would like to see his 23andme and gedmatch results. Eastern Maris should be around 30-35% East Eurasian if we go by G25 Mari samples.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komintasavalta View Post
    Or it could be that the Eastern Europe component also represents old Northeastern European HG ancestry.

    On Eurogenes K15 updated, the Eastern_Euro component peaks in Maris and Chuvashes, but it's the fourth highest in Selkups (https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k15-vahaduo.htm):

    38.4 Mari
    36.1 Chuvash
    29.1 Erzya
    28.2 Selkup
    26.8 Kargopol_Russian
    24.0 Latvian
    23.8 RU_Pinega
    23.8 East_Finnish
    23.6 Ket
    22.6 Shors
    22.5 Southwest_Russian
    22.5 Estonian_Polish
    22.3 Ukraine_East
    22.2 Ukrainian_Belgorod
    22.2 Tatar
    21.2 Lithuanian
    21.2 Belorussian
    20.7 Estonian
    20.4 Russian_Smolensk
    20.1 Polish_Masuria
    19.9 Polish_Kielce
    19.9 Polish
    19.3 Ukrainian_Kiev_Avg
    18.8 Finnish
    Also Kets and Shors who are Siberian Turks also score very high on it.

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