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Thread: Why the English picked to call themselves Anglo Saxons?

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    Default Why the English picked to call themselves Anglo Saxons?

    They are more then only that and genetically not very different than Scottish and Irish who are called Celts?

    Also I watched Robin Hood and the Anglo Saxons used to be subordinate to another nordic group I think probably the normans or was it the vikings? But they had invaded England and made Anglo Saxon subordinate.
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    Because their ancestors or partial ancestors are from Saxony a Germanic tribe. They also use Germanic language and I think there is a difference of looks between Scots and the English. Ofcourse there is huge overlap, many of them look same, but they have their unique look.

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    I think that because, linguistically, the "Ingvaeonic" area gets its name from a tribe of "the Eng-lish," or a, "people of the Eng," (-ing ending in English words is maybe connected), that, combined with the fact that a tribe of "Angles" from the same general off-isle area in the "Anglo-Saxon Invasion," as well as the fact that the Romans knew the Britons to be "angelic" in appearance, when in slave sales on the Continent. These several factors allow the term, "Anglo" to characterize the inhabitants of Britain.
    The "Saxon," is pretty straight-forward to understand, as Continental Saxons were numbered among these fellow-germanics who came to the isle after the Romans left.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingaevones

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toddy Frent View Post
    I think that because, linguistically, the "Ingvaeonic" area gets its name from a tribe of "the Eng-lish," or a, "people of the Eng," (-ing ending in English words is maybe connected), that, combined with the fact that a tribe of "Angles" from the same general off-isle area in the "Anglo-Saxon Invasion,"
    It was as simple as the fact that the larger kingdoms of the heptarchy (Northumbria and Mercia) were of Anglian origin. Mercia, in particular, got the most powerful at the time the term "Aenglisc" began to be used more widely.



    Quote Originally Posted by Toddy Frent View Post
    as well as the fact that the Romans knew the Britons to be "angelic" in appearance, when in slave sales on the Continent. These several factors allow the term, "Anglo" to characterize the inhabitants of Britain.
    At the time, "Briton" was used to refer exclusively to the Romano-British Celtic inhabitants of the island pre-invasion (the people today known as Welsh and Cornish).

    Quote Originally Posted by Toddy Frent View Post
    The "Saxon," is pretty straight-forward to understand, as Continental Saxons were numbered among these fellow-germanics who came to the isle after the Romans left.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingaevones
    Yes they were, but the main kingdom of the Saxons, the Gewissae (Wessex) would only gain importance later.
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    Their identity is a holdover from that of their ancestors, the Angles and Saxons. That simple really. Of course, they absorbed the blood of the natives of Great Britain (possibly a majority of their ancestry at this point) and later Scandinavian and French blood. But that is the story of countless invaders and peoples in history.

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    You could make the same thread on why the French were called Franks despite being mostly Gaulish, why the Germans are called Germans despite being Celto-Slavo-Germanic, why the Irish are called Celts despite being mostly Bell Beaker etc etc.....or you could try thinking first.

    Besides, the English have called themselves English rather than Anglo-Saxon for over 1000 years. Nobody calls themselves Anglo-Saxon in daily life, only their ancestors. When the Anglo-Saxons came to Britain they displaced the native Britons (80% replacement in the early middle ages), so they were Anglo-Saxons then. Over time as they absorbed British blood and formed a united Kingdom of England, they became the English, and identified as that instead.

    The genetic closeness of English and Irish is also overrated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mortimer View Post
    They are more then only that and genetically not very different than Scottish and Irish who are called Celts?

    Also I watched Robin Hood and the Anglo Saxons used to be subordinate to another nordic group I think probably the normans or was it the vikings? But they had invaded England and made Anglo Saxon subordinate.
    Because it sounds less ridiculous than 'aryan' or some other alternative nonsense and because , on average, they are more Angle-Saxon than the Scottish, Welsh and Irish although there is overlap with Scottish and Welsh.

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    English don't call themselves Anglo-Saxon. It is only on genetic and anthropology forums that people use those terms. Regarding Isles populations there is also no Celtic cluster looking at published studies and also you can see it with Gedmatch calculators and G25 the Scots are closer to the Irish and English than they are to the Welsh and the Welsh are closer to the English than they are to Scots or Irish. Some Scots are closer to the Irish than they are to the English i.e. West Scots or Southwest Scots but many Scots would also be closer to the English than they are to the Irish especially border populations. Also genetics mirrors geography most of the time (there are exceptions) but for English they would be closer to Scots and Welsh than to the Irish which is logical when you look at geography. Hebrideans are closer to the Irish as are people from Argyll etc but if you know history you can see why that is the case. As I've said though there is no Celtic cluster which is not surprising as Welsh, Scots, Irish and also English have quite a bit of Bell Beaker ancestry with English having the least.

    Feel free to add anything else or elaborate further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    English don't call themselves Anglo-Saxon.

    It depends on the context if some German said they were fellow 'aryans' they would would likely say "no. we are Anglo-Saxons".

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace
    It is only on genetic and anthropology forums that people use those terms.
    So, says the Australian you are likely to find it in reputable books as well in the very least.

    Regarding Isles populations there is also no Celtic cluster looking at published studies and also you can see it with Gedmatch calculators and G25 the Scots are closer to the Irish and English than they are to the Welsh and the Welsh are closer to the English than they are to Scots or Irish. Some Scots are closer to the Irish than they are to the English i.e. West Scots or Southwest Scots but many Scots would also be closer to the English than they are to the Irish especially border populations. Also genetics mirrors geography most of the time (there are exceptions) but for English they would be closer to Scots and Welsh than to the Irish which is logical when you look at geography. Hebrideans are closer to the Irish as are people from Argyll etc but if you know history you can see why that is the case. As I've said though there is no Celtic cluster which is not surprising as Welsh, Scots, Irish and also English have quite a bit of Bell Beaker ancestry with English having the least.
    GEDmatch is trash what do you expect for free (too many cooks spoil the broth) ?; G25 is not cutting edge anymore but good enough for the layman but there are not enough regional samples and I don't think the individual samples are clearly marked for region. Also, you can talk about Hebrides, Argyl and Orkney but demographically in the mathematical sense it does not make as much sense as there are more sheep in the highlands than people. That is not to disrespect those people but math is cold and impersonal.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grace
    As I've said though there is no Celtic cluster which is not surprising as Welsh, Scots, Irish and also English have quite a bit of Bell Beaker ancestry with English having the least.
    Is there a G25 set for that ? What kind of beakers ? What if one used ancient Dutch Bell Beakers only ?

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    [QUOTE=JamesBond007;7293212]It depends on the context if some German said they were fellow 'aryans' they would would likely say "no. we are Anglo-Saxons".

    Quote Originally Posted by Grace
    It is only on genetic and anthropology forums that people use those terms.[/qoute]

    So, says the Australian you are likely to find it in reputable books as well in the very least.



    GEDmatch is trash and G25 is not cutting edge anymore but good enough for the layman but there are not enough regional samples and I don't think the individual samples are clearly marked for region. Also, you can talk about Hebrides, Argyl and Orkney but demographically in the mathematical sense it does not make as much sense as there are more sheep in the highlands than people. That is not to disrespect those people but math is cold and impersonal.





    Is there a G25 set for that ? What kind of beakers ? What if one used ancient Dutch Bell Beakers only ?
    Irish born Australian. Is that clear enough? There is no ambiguity about my ethnicity.

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