The commander of Finnish Airforce talked too much

[Harkonnen]

Gripen is more like a sniper or a glorified flying missile launch pad. Dog fights should be avoided as much as possible. Unless the pilots perform miracles they should have very little chance in close combat. Drone-wings would be great with Gripen. 2 kill-drones, 1-guard-drone. Again, the fact it can land on roads plays well with its other design features. You could literally scatter the land with Loading Teams. Let's say for example every 50 kilometer or so. They could be hiding in forests. Gripen unloads its missiles on the attacker, and whether they hit or miss, immediately heads for the nearest Load Team for another payload. It could be re-fueled and armed in 10 minutes. So you could have it up in the air with another set of of missiles extremely fast. Rinse and repeat.

With drones this would work even better. Shoot the missiles, and if missiles miss, send the drones to face the attacker. Seek and destroy. At best the drones will shoot down the enemy, and at worst they will keep the enemy occupied for awhile and buy time for the Gripens to re-arm themselves with another set of missiles and drone-wings. Rinse and repeat.

In my opinion drones could be build very effective in dogfights. Every fighter jet out there is more or less a compromise, that is, not specifically designed only for maximal output in dogfight. Design the drone for maximized power to weight ratio. Without pilot it could perform much more extreme flight maneuvers (no limitations on g-forces the pilot can withstand).

[Harkonnen]

Interesting video. Oerlikon Skynex takes down a flock of small drone swarm. Easy peasy.

[Lemminkäinen]

Now the decision: Finland buys 64 F-35 fighters, air to air, air to surface and cruise missiles.

[Lemminkäinen]

Rafale and Eurofighter didn't pass the basic capability level, so best fighters were one Swedish and two US candidates. Maybe British an French fighters cope in North Africa, but not in harsh reality in the neighborhood of Russia. EU countries sell shit to other EU countries and then complain why this happens.

[Finnish Swede]

Now the decision: Finland buys 64 F-35 fighters, air to air, air to surface and cruise missiles.

I have no knowledges to say was that decision right by valuing fighters alone, but if looking everything else ... that was pretty obvious.
Finland simply could not give USA any other kind of answer/message (especially today). Same goes against Russia.

Three too hot places:

* Ukraine: Russia vs NATO/USA
* Iran (their nuclear weapon needs to be pretty close?) What Israel will do?
* Taiwan: Chine vs Taiwan/USA

Nobody knows how the world will look in next coming years. Finland will need to do all to keep their NATO door open (Cold war time Finland's NATO member could not ever happened). Today Finland's military works already much better together with NATO/USA (said by military officers of USA) than many NATO countries can do in Europe.

[Lemminkäinen]

I have no knowledges to say was that decision right by valuing fighters alone, but if looking everything else ... that was pretty obvious.
Finland simply could not give USA any other kind of answer/message (especially today). Same goes against Russia.

Three too hot places:

* Ukraine: Russia vs NATO/USA
* Iran (their nuclear weapon needs to be pretty close?) What Israel will do?
* Taiwan: Chine vs Taiwan/USA

Nobody knows how the world will look in next coming years. Finland will need to do all to keep their NATO door open (Cold war time Finland's NATO member could not ever happened). Today Finland's military works already much better together with NATO/USA (said by military officers of USA) than many NATO countries can do in Europe.

You are right (again). Likely only USA can combine the data gathered by F-35 fighters with larger databases and give Finland good operative information.

Yes, it is obvious that Putin tries to blackmail the west by threatening Ukraine. Putin wants to block Nato's eastern expansion. Although Ukraine has little to do wirh Finland, any compromises in Ukraine would weaken our position.

[Finnish Swede]

You are right (again). Likely only USA can combine the data gathered by F-35 fighters with larger databases and give Finland good operative information.

Yes, it is obvious that Putin tries to blackmail the west by threatening Ukraine. Putin wants to block Nato's eastern expansion. Although Ukraine has little to do wirh Finland, any compromises in Ukraine would weaken our position.

Putin? I just hope west will stay strong and will not accept any deals/offers done by Putin (like USA/west would agree that NATO will not spread east anymore and Putin would opposite agree not to attack to Ukraine). Just as that kind of agreement would give Putin, Chine etc. picture of weak west and via blackmailing west one can get some results. For example Finland's NATO membership should base on decision of Finns ... not what Russia has been blackmailed from west (without hearing Finns at all).

[Harkonnen]

Gripen
Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in) JAS 39C / 14.8 m (49 ft) JAS 39D
Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
CI 0.59
CI 0.56


Eurofighter
Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
CI 0.68

F35
Length: 51.4 ft (15.7 m)
Wingspan: 35 ft (11 m)
CI 0.7

Brachycephalized superiority.

[Finnish Swede]

Gripen
Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in) JAS 39C / 14.8 m (49 ft) JAS 39D
Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
CI 0.59
CI 0.56


Eurofighter
Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
CI 0.68

F35
Length: 51.4 ft (15.7 m)
Wingspan: 35 ft (11 m)
CI 0.7

Brachycephalized superiority.

Sounds bit desperate now...

I still believe Gripen would have been good (enough) fighter for Finland (as such). And keeping mind whole life circle of fighters, I believe it would have become clearly cheaper for Finland's tax payers (no matter what ''official'' comments are). Lastly Gripen would have been exactly on its best area against bigger and less agile Russian's Sukhois/Migs. Just to add: Finns hardly would have needed to put those Gripens against anyones F-35s...

But keeping mind how unpredictable world is (right now and seemed to be in next coming years/decades) warm, close and good relationships with USA might show up very important. Now after era of Trump (funny comment now, then Niinistö 2 years ago visited in USA Trump said that Finland will buy American fighters ... ). So I will not heavily judge this decision of political elite of Finland. Plus I have always support Finland's NATO membership. Having similar fighters as Norway (NATO country) and Denmark (NATO country) will make joining to club again someway easier (in practical levels).

If Canada also will not choose Gripen (2022?) Saab might face hard times. Saab would desperately need more users of those fighters to keep development costs in reasonable level.

[Harkonnen]

Sounds bit desperate now...

I still believe Gripen would have been good (enough) fighter for Finland (as such). And keeping mind whole life circle of fighters, I believe it would have become clearly cheaper for Finland's tax payers (no matter what ''official'' comments are). Lastly Gripen would have been exactly on its best area against bigger and less agile Russian's Sukhois/Migs. Just to add: Finns hardly would have needed to put those Gripens against anyones F-35s...

But keeping mind how unpredictable world is (right now and seemed to be in next coming years/decades) warm, close and good relationships with USA might show up very important. Now after era of Trump (funny comment now, then Niinistö 2 years ago visited in USA Trump said that Finland will buy American fighters ... ). So I will not heavily judge this decision of political elite of Finland. Plus I have always support Finland's NATO membership. Having similar fighters as Norway (NATO country) and Denmark (NATO country) will make joining to club again someway easier (in practical levels).

If Canada also will not choose Gripen (2022?) Saab might face hard times. Saab would desperately need more users of those fighters to keep development costs in reasonable level.

Canada is a partner with Lockheed Martin and USA in development of F35 and has spent over 600 million dollars in development costs. As a partner in development it is also going to get major discount from Lockheed. Also it is estimated F35 program supports 150000 jobs throughout Canada, and the program is already a billion dollar boost to Canadian economy, so it would be huge surprise, if Canucks don't roll with F35.

Finland has big co-operations going on with Norway because Russia has resurrected old Bastion strategies in the North

Kartta- ja uhkakuvien arviointi on saanut Suomen ja Norjan syventämään nopeasti puolustusyhteistyötään. Puolustusministerit Antti Kaikkonen ja Frank Bakke-Jensen allekirjoittivat kesäkuussa Tuusulassa aiesopimuksen.

Maat tutkivat mahdollisuudet yhteiseen operaatiosuunnitteluun alueilla, joilla suomalaisilla ja norjalaisilla on jaettuja huolia.

Yhteinen taistelukyky
Käytännössä kirjaus tarkoittaa yhteistä taistelukykyä Finnmarkissa ja Pohjois-Lapissa. Sitä myös harjoitellaan.

Norjan, Ruotsin ja Suomen ilmavoimat ovat lentäneet vuodesta 2009 alkaen säännöllisesti rajat ylittävissä yhteisharjoituksissa.

– On tietty tehtävä. Se liittyy johonkin tapahtumakulkuun. Sitten hajautamme hävittäjät ratkaisemaan tehtävän yhdessä. Operaatioiden komentajat eri lentokoneista kokoontuvat laatimaan suunnitelman, komentaja Gunnerud kertoo.

Norjan suurimman ilmatukikohdan komentaja innostuu puhuessaan kolmen Pohjoismaan ilmavoimien yhteistoimintakyvystä.

– Mukana saattaa olla maajoukkoja. Ilma- ja maajoukot voivat suunnitella operaatiota yhdessä. Operaatiolle on asetettu aikaraja, esimerkiksi tehtävän suorittaminen vuorokaudessa, Gunnerud kuvailee.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/...8-125c9c17869e