The commander of Finnish Airforce talked too much

[Lemminkäinen]

Let's say you are right, and in a way you are right that they are unproven against top kek boys. Some experts say they will work just great against top kek, others are doubtful. Let's say doubtful are correct.

So where are we?

We are right here right now BUT we are dealing with novel technology that is constantly improving. If I have chance to be part in early phase of novel technology, I will invest in novel industry ESPECIALLY if traditional thinking does not give me high chance of winning.

In traditional warfare, man against man, those sixty jets are fart in Sahara against Russian Air Force. Our boys would have to perform miracles to top gun the Russian. I guess, miracles are possible, but every sane man understands that odds are not high.

So in this sort of scenario I would invest in novel ways of thinking about warfare, even if there is small chance that the actual output would be worse, as it would not really change the most likely outcome in anyway. But on the other hand novel ways of thinking can sometimes produce ridiculous winning margins contra traditional thinking.

One day we could be building drone fighters, and hell even uncle Elon says F-35's have no chance against it. And I know Elon no five star general but some fools think he's a god or something
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon...20-2?r=US&IR=T

.
Arms race is just going on. I don't know the situation in Syria where Turkish UAV's are used against Syrian forces. But definitely every nation will use UAV's.

[Harkonnen]

ERDOGAN HUMILIATING RUSSIA WITH DRONES


https://www.businessinsider.com/turk...0-10?r=US&IR=T

Turkey is increasingly wading into proxy conflicts against Russian-backed forces, and its success in them have been humiliating President Vladimir Putin all year.

Most recently Turkey backed Azerbaijan's fight against Russia-backed Armenia over Nagorno-Karabakh. The region is a remnant of the Soviet Union's collapse and is based in Azerbaijan, but has a largely ethnic Armenian population and leadership.

Turkey is allies with Azerbaijan, while Russia supports Armenia and has a military base in the country.

'More Putin than Putin'

Military analysts believe that Turkey's increasing boldness stems from President Recep Tayyip Erdogan simply acting like Putin.

"Erdogan has become more Putin than Putin," said one NATO military analyst based in the Middle East. This source does not have the permission to be named in the press, but their identity is known to Insider.

They believe that Erdogan was emboldened by how little pushback Putin has received from the West while establishing long-term presences in Syria and Libya, and absorbing large chunks of Ukraine.

Over the past year Turkey has also entered conflicts in Syria and Libya.

"Erdogan looks at his cheap but effective drone program and thinks, why not do the same?" the analyst said. "These tactics turn out to work best in the exact places Putin is using them himself."

The source was referring to Turkey's deployment of a series of domestically-produced and inexpensive armed drones, which have been able to destroy large numbers of expensive armored vehicles. Turkey has also used the drones in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Earlier this year, Russia sent mercenaries, weapons, and air support to forces in Libya loyal to the warlord Khalifa Haftar to drive on the capital of Tripoli and fight the country's government.

At the time, Putin — and his allies in Egypt and the UAE — thought they would head to an easy victory that would result in lucrative oil deals, a long-term military presence, and a friendly government in a key part of the world.

But Turkey, too, saw an opportunity for a role of its own, and sent forces to back the Tripoli government — which ultimately stopped the Russian advance, and forced a ceasefire and negotiations.

Last October, the Turkish military entered Syria's Idlib province for the first time to force an advance by Russian-backed Syrian government troops.

After several weeks of exchanging fire, the Turks, once again backed by drones, stopped the Syrian advance.

"It's the drones that makes it so cheap and easy," the NATO analyst told Insider.

"Erdogan can afford to risk some drones and mercenaries he picks up from various Syrian groups, and each time it works: There's some criticism from NATO and some phone calls but just as he saw with Putin in Crimea, nobody is going to do anything."

'A no-lose situation'
Turkey's cheap success in Libya and Syria have only made it easier for it to intervene on behalf of Azerbaijan in Nagorno-Karabakh now.

"The Turks see it work in the Middle East and decide its a no-lose situation: helping the Azeri cousins against Armenians will always poll well in Turkey, the military cost is some replaceable drones and Syrians, and now you have just started a war in the former Soviet Union at almost no cost that's got to be driving Putin mad."

Russia, meanwhile, has limited its response to the conflict. While it is technically aligned with Armenia via a defense pact, it does not have a bad relationship with Azerbaijan.

"Until Russia can stop" Turkey from deploying its cheap drones, "Putin is going to have a problem," the analyst said.

Referring to Erdogan, they added: "Here's a guy who cares as little as Putin does what the world thinks and at least for now has set back most of Putin's plans for 2020."

[Harkonnen]

USN has published Navy Aviation Vision 2030-2035 report. Among many other things, it has published information about the F/A-XX concept. In the concept image, the fighter flies with drone wings. Interesting in the picture is the armament/equipment of the drone flock. The picture shows air combat drones (AA), ELSO drone (EW) and communication drone (C2). The air refueling drone is not shown in the concept image, but refueling and reconnaissance drones are mentioned elsewhere in the study.

Regarding the HX project, the report also mentions the same weapons that have been offered to Finland and mentions the "reduced signature" of Block III Super Hornet and the mention of Growler's Next Generation Jammer. On the other hand the Super Hornets would be retiring in the 2030s, meaning that in the 2040s there would no longer be Super Hornets on aircraft carriers.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documen...0-2035_fnl.pdf

[Turul Karom]

Interesting picture. Still no idea how accurate it is.

LMAO that picture says Finland would not give a moment of support for Hungary..

[Finnish Swede]

LMAO that picture says Finland would not give a moment of support for Hungary..

And what's weird here? Keep in minds Finland is not NATO country.

Perhaps Finns also generally speaking feels that they have been left alone bit too many times ...

[Turul Karom]

And what's weird here? Keep in minds Finland is not NATO country.

Perhaps Finns also generally speaking feels that they have been left alone bit too many times ...

So what about NATO? They have a better opinion about other NATO countries rather than Hungary. That isn't the point.

It's ironic. Are we not supposed to be in some Uralic fraternity? Of course Finland supports Scandinavia more.

[Finnish Swede]

So what about NATO? They have a better opinion about other NATO countries rather than Hungary. That isn't the point.

It's ironic. Are we not supposed to be in some Uralic fraternity? Of course Finland supports Scandinavia more.

See Finns reactions against Estonians. Next ask yourself who could threaten Estonia? And still Finns would be ready to help Estonians. Basically jump against heavy truck.

Maybe Finns see Hungarians via Orban ... not the most popular person there.

[Harkonnen]

So what about NATO? They have a better opinion about other NATO countries rather than Hungary. That isn't the point.

It's ironic. Are we not supposed to be in some Uralic fraternity? Of course Finland supports Scandinavia more.

According our media Hungary is nazi country, so keep in mind these hate Hungary very much votes come from leftists for sure.

[Turul Karom]

According our media Hungary is nazi country, so keep in mind these hate Hungary very much votes come from leftists for sure.

Only Nazi country that professes non-Indo-European origins, speaks a non-Indo-European language, and has a heterogenous Asian tribal and genetic structure.

People look at a Hungarian skintone, see a wire wall at the border, and lose their minds like it's the Holocaust. Brain dead.

[coolfrenchguy]

They will publish the decision soon now?

F-35? Well, Finns taxpayers have more than enough money, right ? Otherwise you would not take poor muslim immigrants there. People who will never be able to support themselves (money wise), just making crimes. One friend of mine (who is living in Westend) told me about those teenager knife gangs in Helsingfors. New phenomenon in Finland (bit scary too)?

Super-Hornets would help next 10 - 15 years. Not really option. If Macron could had really created serious EU/European military forces to defense whole area, then maybe Rafale could be real option. But not now/today. Eurofighter is ok, but what Finland would ''win'' as choosing it? Saab would be my ''romantic'' choice but I agree ... Finns will not gonna just purchase the best plane vs selling prices/costs (as they say). Finns are also wanting to buy ''political aspects''. Always so even as they will not admit that. US fighters (like earlier F-18) would offer that more than any European fighter, even as country will not be NATO member (not yet anyway). Like some USA generals have said (while last years), Finland is more ready (better) than few NATO countries to work with NATO.

Smiling faces?


Boys will get new toys

does Finland don't supposed to be in the european union and in the euro zone,and they choose USA for their fighters where we have one of the best production in aerospace in Toulouse,thanks for stabbing us in the back and the "european cooperation"