What are modern day Turks ethnically made up of?

[oszkar07]

I think mainly the ones I bolded and to lesser degree the ones i put in Italics.

Azeri maybe distant and recent
Iranian (more distant but making up part of Azeri ethnos anyway)
Turkmen
Armenian
Kurdish
Greek
Bosniaks
Levantine Arabs
Central Asian/Mongoloid
Chechen/Circassian/Abkhazian/Laz/Crimean Tatars
Georgian
Albanian
Bulgarian
Anatolian (pure/native)
Romanian probably minimal --- more likely from Bulgarians/Serbs/Macedonians than Romanians.

[Sora]

Turkish genetic structure is not as complex as people think. Thanks to "Turkish DNA Project" and similar studies, there are more than 400+ Turks who did DNA test.

Turkish people are grouped into two main groups; Anatolian Turks & Balkan Turks.
*Anatolian Turks: Oghuz Turkic settlers(25%-50%) + Hellenized(sometimes Armenized) Native Anatolians(50%-75%), some individuals may have Iranic input. They are at least 30 million.
*Balkan Turks: They are ethnic Turkish settled by Ottomans prior to the state's "Settlement Policy" in Bulgaria, Greece, Northern Macedonia, Kosovo & Romania. They are of Balkan-mainly Slavic- populations(70%-85%) + Oghuz Turkic settlers(15%-30%), some individuals may have Tatar input as well. They are approximately 10-12 million

[Sora]

But if you ask Turkey's ethnic structure, then it's different. According to some charts;

*40 million Turks(60%)
*17 million Kurds(20%)
*5 million Circassians(6%, not necessarily pure ones or Adyghe/Kabardin speakers)
*5 million Zaza(6%)
*4.2 million Muslim Slavs(5%; mainly Bosniaks & some Pomaks)
*3 million Albanians(4%)
*1.5 million Laz + 800k Georgians(totally 3%)
*2 million Arabs(3%%; only native Arabs, not Syrian or other immigrants)
*2.5 million Azeris(3%; only native ones from Eastern Turkey)
*2 million Crimean Tatars(2%, including Balkan Tatars)
*1 million Syrian & Iraqi Turkmens(2%, they settled in Turkey mainly in 90s & 2000s)
*900k Pontic Greeks + 200k Hemshin Armenians (1%, all are Muslims)
*900k Romani (0.9%)
*25k Jews + 10k Armenians + 6k Greeks + 2k Assyrian (totally 0.8% non-Muslim)
**20k Turkmens + 10k Uzbeks + 10k Kazakhs + 5k Uyghurs + 1k Kyrgyz (totally 0.5%, mainly immigrants from Afghanistan came in 80s)

Sources: several charts, especially Joshua Project & TUIK(Turkey's National Statistics Company)

**: So sorry if there are mistakes. My math is unfortunately not that good at all and you can correct the numbers.

[Turul Karom]

What does ethnic replacement mean?

It means that ethnic Turks, around which Atatürk modeled the idea of a secular, nationalist Turkey, are being replaced by an assortment of various Middle Eastern groups with little ethnic interest in becoming Turkish. Some are even actively anti-Turkish, and they bide their time until Turkey is in crisis. This is why Erdogan focuses more on Islam as a unifying factor rather than shared Turkic origin. Atatürk did not have any love for the Sultanate or what he saw as the backwards Empire that wasted the lives of Turks for generations. He also restored Turkic words to the vocabulary, changed the alphabet away from Arabic, and put an emphasis on "Turkishness."

[Italicus]

It means that ethnic Turks, around which Atatürk modeled the idea of a secular, nationalist Turkey, are being replaced by an assortment of various Middle Eastern groups with little ethnic interest in becoming Turkish. Some are even actively anti-Turkish, and they bide their time until Turkey is in crisis. This is why Erdogan focuses more on Islam as a unifying factor rather than shared Turkic origin. Atatürk did not have any love for the Sultanate or what he saw as the backwards Empire that wasted the lives of Turks for generations. He also restored Turkic words to the vocabulary, changed the alphabet away from Arabic, and put an emphasis on "Turkishness."

Such a shame Turks are being replaced by alien peoples. Turkey should never have incorporated Kurdistan in the Republic.

[Odelia]

It means that ethnic Turks, around which Atatürk modeled the idea of a secular, nationalist Turkey, are being replaced by an assortment of various Middle Eastern groups with little ethnic interest in becoming Turkish. Some are even actively anti-Turkish, and they bide their time until Turkey is in crisis. This is why Erdogan focuses more on Islam as a unifying factor rather than shared Turkic origin. Atatürk did not have any love for the Sultanate or what he saw as the backwards Empire that wasted the lives of Turks for generations. He also restored Turkic words to the vocabulary, changed the alphabet away from Arabic, and put an emphasis on "Turkishness."

And that's the problem. That's the dilemma...! Ethnic Turks are still themselves a mix of these "non-Turkish groups" that they're being "replaced" by. It's funny -- They're hating on Levantine/Arabs and yet they've stolen their Semitic religion and so much that they're more fucking Muslim than Arabs themselves. Turks here are incredibly and grotesquely Islamic! Lmao. Reminds me of far-right wingers who go to church and worship a Jew, take notes from a Jewish book, whilst they crap on Jews and Semitic material.

And if you want to be a pure Turanic Turk, then shouldn't you be in Central Asia? Turkey is a melting pot. Turks were never pure. Blame the Ottomans, really!

Here is Sora's ethnic makeup list:

*40 million Turks(60%)
*17 million Kurds(20%)
*5 million Circassians(6%, not necessarily pure ones or Adyghe/Kabardin speakers)
*5 million Zaza(6%)
*4.2 million Muslim Slavs(5%; mainly Bosniaks & some Pomaks)
*3 million Albanians(4%)
*1.5 million Laz + 800k Georgians(totally 3%)
*2 million Arabs(3%%; only native Arabs, not Syrian or other immigrants)
*2.5 million Azeris(3%; only native ones from Eastern Turkey)
*2 million Crimean Tatars(2%, including Balkan Tatars)
*1 million Syrian & Iraqi Turkmens(2%, they settled in Turkey mainly in 90s & 2000s)
*900k Pontic Greeks + 200k Hemshin Armenians (1%, all are Muslims)
*900k Romani (0.9%)
*25k Jews + 10k Armenians + 6k Greeks + 2k Assyrian (totally 0.8% non-Muslim)
**20k Turkmens + 10k Uzbeks + 10k Kazakhs + 5k Uyghurs + 1k Kyrgyz (totally 0.5%, mainly immigrants from Afghanistan came in 80s)

Sources: several charts, especially Joshua Project & TUIK(Turkey's National Statistics Company)

These 40 million "ethnic Turks" are hardly purely Anatolian. They have a little (maybe a lot) of the below groups in them. Same way "Americans" are generally a mix of German, Irish, English and Italian. Those who tick "American" on Census box, I mean. BTW, this post is not an attack or shade thrown on Turks. I do not mind them at all and I have Turkish buddies, and I think Turkish men are fucking hot! But I just call a spade, a spade.

Such a shame Turks are being replaced by alien peoples. Turkey should never have incorporated Kurdistan in the Republic.

I can't fucking believe an Italian is saying this. You are so ignorant about Turkish history and its ethnic constituents.

Kurds are pretty much quasi Turks. They make up the Turkish ethnicity. That's like saying "why are so many Americans allowing the Scottish in the USA?" When white Americans have a lot of Scottish in them. A fucking Kurd in Turkey is as "alien" as a fucking Irish or Scotsman in Ohio.... The ignorance...!

[Turul Karom]

And that's the problem. That's the dilemma...! Ethnic Turks are still themselves a mix of these "non-Turkish groups" that they're being "replaced" by. It's funny -- They're hating on Levantine/Arabs and yet they've stolen their Semitic religion and so much that they're more fucking Muslim than Arabs themselves. Turks here are incredibly and grotesquely Islamic! Lmao. Reminds me of far-right wingers who go to church and worship a Jew, take notes from a Jewish book, whilst they crap on Jews and Semitic material.

And if you want to be a pure Turanic Turk, then shouldn't you be in Central Asia? Turkey is a melting pot. Turks were never pure. Blame the Ottomans, really!

Here is Sora's ethnic makeup list:

*40 million Turks(60%)
*17 million Kurds(20%)
*5 million Circassians(6%, not necessarily pure ones or Adyghe/Kabardin speakers)
*5 million Zaza(6%)
*4.2 million Muslim Slavs(5%; mainly Bosniaks & some Pomaks)
*3 million Albanians(4%)
*1.5 million Laz + 800k Georgians(totally 3%)
*2 million Arabs(3%%; only native Arabs, not Syrian or other immigrants)
*2.5 million Azeris(3%; only native ones from Eastern Turkey)
*2 million Crimean Tatars(2%, including Balkan Tatars)
*1 million Syrian & Iraqi Turkmens(2%, they settled in Turkey mainly in 90s & 2000s)
*900k Pontic Greeks + 200k Hemshin Armenians (1%, all are Muslims)
*900k Romani (0.9%)
*25k Jews + 10k Armenians + 6k Greeks + 2k Assyrian (totally 0.8% non-Muslim)
**20k Turkmens + 10k Uzbeks + 10k Kazakhs + 5k Uyghurs + 1k Kyrgyz (totally 0.5%, mainly immigrants from Afghanistan came in 80s)

Sources: several charts, especially Joshua Project & TUIK(Turkey's National Statistics Company)

These 40 million "ethnic Turks" are hardly purely Anatolian. They have a little (maybe a lot) of the below groups in them. Same way "Americans" are generally a mix of German, Irish, English and Italian. Those who tick "American" on Census box, I mean. BTW, this post is not an attack or shade thrown on Turks. I do not mind them at all and I have Turkish buddies, and I think Turkish men are fucking hot! But I just call a spade, a spade.

Absolutely terrible understanding of the situation on multiple levels. I cannot stress how little you get this based around what you just said.

First of all, Atatürk wished for a secular Turkey. Those pushing hardline Islamism in Turkey are by-and-large not the ethnic Turks but those who have been migrating into the country for decades. They have a much higher birth rate than ethnic Turks, and this is changing the electorate in many areas of Turkey as well as the sound of Turkish politics.

Second, Islam, like Christianity onto the Hungarians, was imposed over a long period of time from the top down.

Third, Islam is better at "standing alone" than Christianity, which relies on the Old Testament (Torah) for legal guidance about things Jesus did not talk about (hence the entire book of Leviticus, the ten commandments, etc, still being a cornerstone of Christian legal framework). Islam sells itself as more independent of these things and that the Jews have lost their mandate and the favor of God, but that some of the old laws are still relevant. Since he is the "Seal of the Prophets," his word is meant to be the finial say on such things. Muhammad was also most certainly not a Jew, so your Jesus example is nonsensical as Muslims do not claim to hate but also follow a Jew. Muhammad is also not worshiped like Christ.

Fourth, no "steppe" group is some pure Magyar-Turanic-Turk-Hun-steppe-Aryan. Every group was heterogeneous. But do you know what? They purged people who did not want to assimilate into the group identity or play ball with the leadership. Steppe life was about practicality and discipline needed to live the sort of nomadic lifestyle the steppes demanded. Hence why wave after wave of steppe peoples have crushed settled peoples after they became slothful, only to then succumb to the same softness over time and be crushed in-turn. This also led to the abandonment of tribal life in favor of feudal life, which was not as focused on tribal or family identity and loyalty as much as it was about class systems and land ownership. With the innovations of literacy and overthrow of feudalism, the common people were once again able to center themselves around an ethnic identity. The Ottoman Empire was built on the backs of ethnic Turks, but Atatürk realized that it now only served to hurt the ethnic interests of Turkish people. This is because empires use the blood of their constituents as gear grease. As one group is ground to death, they need new ethnic groups to pander to in order to then grind into blood grease in turn. The USA is the same way, and has done this with waves of Europeans and now are using waves of Hispanics who, as of cows thinking they will be kings of the slaughterhouse, will be culturally and ethnically lobotomized to perpetuate US imperialism.

Fifth, as Atatürk said, a nation that does not discover or protect its own identity will be preyed upon by those who have one. Do you have any idea how many people in Eastern Turkey want to break it apart? Do you have any idea how, all because one group of Turks can say, "let us all be friends and trust one another!" that it takes all groups within to agree to such a proposal and then act on it in good-faith without trying to control things or take over in the shadow of friendship?

Amazing, absolutely amazing, that you would question the identity of the Anatolian Turk, but not bother to question the Kurd, the Arab, etc, about their own "constructed" identities.

Finally, LMAO at you cushioning your take by appealing to the male sexual ego... "Turks are hot!" Don't you mean to say Kruds/Arabs/Turks are hot, since there's no practical difference between these "spades" in your mind?

[RogueState]

These stats are somehow not realistic, because after decades of internal mobility within Anatolia (rural exodus to big cities) + external migrations (Balkans/Caucasus in the past, Arabs nowadays); there are a lot of "mixed" couples and babies in big cities

I believe for instance that native Istanbulians (4 grand parents born in Istanbul) are a minority, most Istanbulians have at lease one grand parent from "outside" (Black Sea, Balkans/Caucasus, Eastern Anatolia, Kurdish)

How do you count them ?

[Italicus]

And that's the problem. That's the dilemma...! Ethnic Turks are still themselves a mix of these "non-Turkish groups" that they're being "replaced" by. It's funny -- They're hating on Levantine/Arabs and yet they've stolen their Semitic religion and so much that they're more fucking Muslim than Arabs themselves. Turks here are incredibly and grotesquely Islamic! Lmao. Reminds me of far-right wingers who go to church and worship a Jew, take notes from a Jewish book, whilst they crap on Jews and Semitic material.

And if you want to be a pure Turanic Turk, then shouldn't you be in Central Asia? Turkey is a melting pot. Turks were never pure. Blame the Ottomans, really!

Here is Sora's ethnic makeup list:

*40 million Turks(60%)
*17 million Kurds(20%)
*5 million Circassians(6%, not necessarily pure ones or Adyghe/Kabardin speakers)
*5 million Zaza(6%)
*4.2 million Muslim Slavs(5%; mainly Bosniaks & some Pomaks)
*3 million Albanians(4%)
*1.5 million Laz + 800k Georgians(totally 3%)
*2 million Arabs(3%%; only native Arabs, not Syrian or other immigrants)
*2.5 million Azeris(3%; only native ones from Eastern Turkey)
*2 million Crimean Tatars(2%, including Balkan Tatars)
*1 million Syrian & Iraqi Turkmens(2%, they settled in Turkey mainly in 90s & 2000s)
*900k Pontic Greeks + 200k Hemshin Armenians (1%, all are Muslims)
*900k Romani (0.9%)
*25k Jews + 10k Armenians + 6k Greeks + 2k Assyrian (totally 0.8% non-Muslim)
**20k Turkmens + 10k Uzbeks + 10k Kazakhs + 5k Uyghurs + 1k Kyrgyz (totally 0.5%, mainly immigrants from Afghanistan came in 80s)

Sources: several charts, especially Joshua Project & TUIK(Turkey's National Statistics Company)

These 40 million "ethnic Turks" are hardly purely Anatolian. They have a little (maybe a lot) of the below groups in them. Same way "Americans" are generally a mix of German, Irish, English and Italian. Those who tick "American" on Census box, I mean. BTW, this post is not an attack or shade thrown on Turks. I do not mind them at all and I have Turkish buddies, and I think Turkish men are fucking hot! But I just call a spade, a spade.


I can't fucking believe an Italian is saying this. You are so ignorant about Turkish history and its ethnic constituents.

Kurds are pretty much quasi Turks. They make up the Turkish ethnicity. That's like saying "why are so many Americans allowing the Scottish in the USA?" When white Americans have a lot of Scottish in them. A fucking Kurd in Turkey is as "alien" as a fucking Irish or Scotsman in Ohio.... The ignorance...!

Umm..https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-results-Afyon
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...dmatch-results

Two completely different genetic results. Turks are Greeks mixed with Central Asian Oghuz. Kurds are essentially Persians. And I'm pretty knowledgeable about Turkish history.

[Zoro]

The Ottoman Empire was built on the backs of ethnic Turks, but Atatürk realized that it now only served to hurt the ethnic interests of Turkish people.

Even though Turks made up the majority of the Ottomen military, Kurd tribes also had a vital role in establishing modern Turkey. Kurds were recruited in large numbers, usually as tribal auxiliaries serving in their local regions rather than regular soldiers. The Kurdish auxiliaries provided the regular Ottoman field armies with scouting and raiding parties and performed internal security duties immediately behind the front lines.

The establishment of the Kurdish National Assembly on February 1922, provided local autonomy for the Kurds, for them to be free to organize themselves and observe their national customs. This provided for some autonomy on a local level but it did not provide a fully independent polity, In essence, real power rested within the Turkish Grand National Assembly; the Kurdish National Assembly would be composed of elected members of the Kurdish population.

Mustafa Kemal strongly appealed to the Kurds for support against the foreign occupiers with notable success. Most Sunni Kurdish dignitaries, motivated by religious solidarity, supported the Kemalist resistance movement, organized from mid-1919 in Eastern Anatolia, which promised fraternity between Turks and Kurds, the liberation of the Caliph in Istanbul from the infidel occupants, and the liberation of Mosul province from British rule.

Ataturk’s promises of autonomy to the Kurdish population in exchange for their help against the foreign aggressors planted the seeds of Kurdish nationalism. In the beginning both Turks and Kurds found common ground in religion, however later Turks in power marginalized Kurds as savages that needed to be civilized.

This was one of the things that started Kurdish nationalism in Turkey. If the Turkish government had not panicked and instead had granted autonomy to Kurd areas I think PKK would have not formed.