I reject your Noahide Laws

[Loki]

Because Jesus Christ is my God and my King, and I will serve him only.

[Mont]

Ok.

[Longbowman]

You would only need to adhere to them if you lived in a hypothetical country run in accordance with Halakha. We don't care what you do in your own country.

But you probably do them anyway, the laws are:

-Be a monotheist
-Do not blaspheme
-Do not commit murder
-Do not torture animals
-Do not steal
-Do not have sex outside of a heterosexual marriage/support the nuclear family
-Establish and adhere to courts of law

So as you can see any good Christian and Muslim is in fact following the Noahide laws at all times, unless you think the Trinity contravenes rule 1.

[Mixdguy17]

But the Noahide laws pretty much align with Christianity/Catholicism laws, so what's wrong with it?.

[Loki]

You would only need to adhere to them if you lived in a hypothetical country run in accordance with Halakha. We don't care what you do in your own country.

But you probably do them anyway, the laws are:

-Be a monotheist
-Do not blaspheme
-Do not commit murder
-Do not torture animals
-Do not steal
-Do not have sex outside of a heterosexual marriage/support the nuclear family
-Establish and adhere to courts of law

So as you can see any good Christian and Muslim is in fact following the Noahide laws at all times, unless you think the Trinity contravenes rule 1.

I've heard Jewish rabbis say that Christians fall foul of the Noahide laws because they believe that Jesus is God -- something that Jews don't recognize, even strongly oppose. But if a Christian doesn't believe in that, he has forfeited the most fundamental and important belief in Christianity.

[Longbowman]

I've heard Jewish rabbis say that Christians fall foul of the Noahide laws because they believe that Jesus is God -- something that Jews don't recognize, even strongly oppose. But if a Christian doesn't believe in that, he has forfeited the most fundamental and important belief in Christianity.

There is an argument, as I said, that Trinitarianism (but not Unitarianism) is idolatrous - however, as I say, the Noahide laws only apply to foreigners residing in Israelite lands, so you don't need to follow them anyway.

Some Christians reject the idea of Jesus as God though.

[Flub]

I wouldn't have a problem with the noahide laws, atleast if it allowed me to not believe in a god. Then, to me there would be no point going any further. None.

[Komintasavalta]

So as you can see any good Christian and Muslim is in fact following the Noahide laws at all times, unless you think the Trinity contravenes rule 1.

Christianity is considered idolatry: http://noahide.com/index.htm, http://stopnoahidelaw.com/2020/10/01...r-noahide-law/.

The sublaws relating to the law against idolatry are covered on this page: http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind...1_idolatry.htm.

An example of the sublaw "To acknowledge G-d's unity (that He is only One, and Infinite)" is "To reject any belief in a 'trinity.'", with the following sources (http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind....php?mitzvah=2):

Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Avodas Kochavim 9:4 - Christian gentiles are idolaters.
Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Maachalos Asuros 11:7; 13:11 - Muslim gentiles are not idolaters (as opposed to Christians).
Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Avodas Kochavim 1:1 - The original belief in other powers as partners of G-d was a "huge mistake" by gentiles.
Kli Yakar, Shemos 20:8 - Having no false gods before G-d (mitzvah -1) was also addressed to gentiles, and they are obligated in it.
Rashi, Devarim 6:4 - The "Shma" (the source of this mitzvah) refers to gentiles ultimately accepting the unity of G-d.

First source (https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...er-Nine.htm#v4): "The Canaanites are idol worshipers, and Sunday is their festival. Accordingly, in Eretz Yisrael, it is forbidden to conduct transactions with them on Thursday and Friday each and every week, and, needless to say, on Sunday itself, when transactions with them are forbidden everywhere."

Second source, 11:7 (https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Chapter-11.htm): "With regard to any gentile who does not serve false deities, e.g., the Arabs:[23] It is forbidden to drink his wine, but it is permitted to benefit from it. The Geonim rule in this manner. With regard to those who worship false deities,[24] by contrast, it is forbidden to benefit from their ordinary wine."

Second source, 13:11 (https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Chapter-13.htm): "It appears to me that anywhere in this context that we have stated that our wine is forbidden to be drunk, but it is permitted to benefit from it because of the possibility that a gentile touched it, we are speaking about an instance where the gentile is an idolater. If, however, the prohibition has arisen because of a gentile who is not an idolater, e.g., an Arab,21 who touched our wine unintentionally or tapped the top of a barrel,22 [the wine] is permitted to be drunken. Similar laws apply in all analogous situations."

[Longbowman]

Christianity is considered idolatry: http://noahide.com/index.htm, http://stopnoahidelaw.com/2020/10/01...r-noahide-law/.

The sublaws relating to the law against idolatry are covered on this page: http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind...1_idolatry.htm.

An example of the sublaw "To acknowledge G-d's unity (that He is only One, and Infinite)" is "To reject any belief in a 'trinity.'", with the following sources (http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind....php?mitzvah=2):

Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Avodas Kochavim 9:4 - Christian gentiles are idolaters.
Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Maachalos Asuros 11:7; 13:11 - Muslim gentiles are not idolaters (as opposed to Christians).
Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Avodas Kochavim 1:1 - The original belief in other powers as partners of G-d was a "huge mistake" by gentiles.
Kli Yakar, Shemos 20:8 - Having no false gods before G-d (mitzvah -1) was also addressed to gentiles, and they are obligated in it.
Rashi, Devarim 6:4 - The "Shma" (the source of this mitzvah) refers to gentiles ultimately accepting the unity of G-d.

First source (https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...er-Nine.htm#v4): "The Canaanites are idol worshipers, and Sunday is their festival. Accordingly, in Eretz Yisrael, it is forbidden to conduct transactions with them on Thursday and Friday each and every week, and, needless to say, on Sunday itself, when transactions with them are forbidden everywhere."

Second source, 11:7 (https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Chapter-11.htm): "With regard to any gentile who does not serve false deities, e.g., the Arabs:[23] It is forbidden to drink his wine, but it is permitted to benefit from it. The Geonim rule in this manner. With regard to those who worship false deities,[24] by contrast, it is forbidden to benefit from their ordinary wine."

Second source, 13:11 (https://www.chabad.org/library/artic...Chapter-13.htm): "It appears to me that anywhere in this context that we have stated that our wine is forbidden to be drunk, but it is permitted to benefit from it because of the possibility that a gentile touched it, we are speaking about an instance where the gentile is an idolater. If, however, the prohibition has arisen because of a gentile who is not an idolater, e.g., an Arab,21 who touched our wine unintentionally or tapped the top of a barrel,22 [the wine] is permitted to be drunken. Similar laws apply in all analogous situations."

So as you can see any good Christian and Muslim is in fact following the Noahide laws at all times, unless you think the Trinity contravenes rule 1.

Thank you for expanding on what I literally just said in the comment you were replying to.

Maimonides was very firm about Trinitarianism being idolatry but his work is not canonical and until very recently rationalist Judaism was explicitly rejected by a majority of the Jewish world. Maimonides had fled Catholic Spain for the Muslim world, so you can see where he was coming from. He has recently gotten broader acceptance but his opinions, whilst influential, are simply not the law.

Some Christians are not Trinitarians anyway - Trinitarianism is dominant today but this was not always so. So, no, it is not correct to say that Christianity is considered idolatrous, but more that many authors would consider Trinitarianism idolatrous.

Either way you can follow whatever laws you like in your own countries, we don't convert by the sword unlike certain religions.

[Komintasavalta]

Thank you for expanding on what I literally just said in the comment you were replying to.

Maimonides also said that Christians are idolaters for the reason that they "make the claim of a messiah" (https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/...od/2013/11/15/):

Halachically, Maimonides says in three distinct places that the Christians are idol worshippers.

1. In his interpretation of the Mishna, tractate Avoda Zara 1:3, he writes: "Know that this Christian nation, who are making the claim of a messiah, with all their many different sects, are all idol worshippers and all their holidays are forbidden, and we deal with them regarding religious issues as we would pagans."

And he adds (AZ 4): "Therefore one must know that in every one of the Christian nation's cities which has an altar, meaning their house of worship, it is a pagan house of idolatry without any doubt."

2. In the uncensored version of Hayad Hachazaka (Hilchot Avoda Zara 9:4), Maimonides issues the edict: "The Christians are idol worshipers and Sunday is their religious holiday, therefore in Eretz Israel we may not trade with them on Thursday and Friday of every week, and needless to say on Sunday, which is forbidden [for trade with Christians] everywhere." Trade in this context refers especially to paying back loans, which would enhance their joy on the day of their idol.

3. Also in Hayad Hachazaka, the laws of forbidden foods, the uncensored version (Hilchot Maachalot Asurot 11:7): "The Christians are idol worshippers and their regular wine if forbidden to be consumed" by Jews since it is likely to be used as libation in their pagan service.

Also for example the sublaw 313 "No adding to the written or oral Torah" is described as "Not to change the teachings of the Torah by adding things it does not contain. G-d's Word was revealed to Moses in two components: the Written Word, preserved as the Hebrew Scriptures, and the Spoken Word, preserved in the Holy Talmud, the Kabbalah, and other rabbinical writings. A gentile who teaches a false Torah is subject to death by the hands of G-d." (http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind...p?mitzvah=-313) Its mandated punishment is listed as "Death from Heaven". An example of the law includes "Not to accept the Veda, the New Testament, the Quran, or the Book of Mormon as legitimate revelations."