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Thread: I reject your Noahide Laws

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komintasavalta View Post
    rambling
    See above, already dealt with this. You don't need to expand further on Maimonides. I assure you I am more familiar with his work than you are and the fact he believed trinitarianism was idolatry is not in question. However, I've already explained why his opinions do not mean Judaism as a whole considers Christianity to be idolatrous, although, as stated before you entered the thread, some people do share that opinion, which is valid, but far from universal.
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    I think Noahide laws are cool except that it can be problematic with Trinity and Monotheism. But the Christian idea of themselfes is that they are monotheists and that there is only 1 God but has 3 personas, like H2O water can be fluid, gas or ice, but it is H20 like a human is one person but has spirit, body and soul. We can observe the trinity in all creation.
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    Trinity is monotheistic even if Jews and Muslims reject it as idolatry. Christians consider themselves monotheistic and believe that there is only one God, but that he has 3 persons. How H2O the water molecule can be liquid, gas or solid / ice and nevertheless it is always H2O. How a person is but has body, mind and soul. I think we can observe the Trinity in the Bible but also in creation over and over again. Humanity descends from 3 sons of Noah, Japhet, Shem and Ham. The ancestors of Israel are Jacob, Israel and Isaac, because the God of Abraham became the God of Jacobs, Isaac and Israel. That's 3 again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    See above, already dealt with this. You don't need to expand further on Maimonides. I assure you I am more familiar with his work than you are and the fact he believed trinitarianism was idolatry is not in question. However, I've already explained why his opinions do not mean Judaism as a whole considers Christianity to be idolatrous, although, as stated before you entered the thread, some people do share that opinion, which is valid, but far from universal.
    No need to worry goy, it's not all Christians we are going to decapitate, but just those who believe in the divinity of Jesus, and it's not all Jews, but it's just the most powerful Jews that run the game.

    It's enough that Rambam is venerated by the real Jews, and no-one is worried that Karaites or Reform Jews start chopping their heads off.

    The "Hasidic University" website was made by some single Jew who believes that the PLO did 9/11, and its interpretation of the Noahide laws is probably not very authoritative. But for example as examples of sublaw 185/436, "To destroy all idols, their temples, and other idolatrous items", it gives the following items (http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind...hp?mitzvah=185):

    - To destroy statues of Buddha or Jesus, as well as crosses, and to dispose of the dust or ashes.
    - To demolish Buddhist temples, Christian churches, and Freemasonic temples.
    - To burn Christmas trees and their ornaments.
    - To demolish the Sphinx in Egypt and scatter the dust.

    As an example of sublaw -6/28, "No idol-worship according to its established rituals", which is punishable by death, it gives "Not to be baptized in Christianity, nor to pray in the name of Jesus" (http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind...php?mitzvah=-6).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komintasavalta View Post
    No need to worry goy, it's not all Christians we are going to decapitate, but just those who believe in the divinity of Jesus, and it's not all Jews, but it's just the most powerful Jews that run the game.
    No, this is inaccurate, again. Try to read a little more carefully and accept that, perhaps, I know [a lot] more than you about this topic. I am not talking about Reform, Liberal, Karaites, etc. I am talking about Rambam not being accepted within Orthodox circles.

    Rambam is not venerated by anybody. He was not a saint or a prophet, but a rationalist commentator. Although he is considered a great thinker by many people, he is simply not an infallible or universally accepted authority. In his lifetime he fled Spain for Egypt. The Jews of Egypt generally loved him (except the Karaites, who were at the time numerous) but the Jews of Spain - and Europe in general, particularly Ashkenazim - generally rejected him. Many of his rulings are contradicted by a great many other great rabbis, both historically and also, to a slightly lesser extent, today. Until very recently, Hassidim rejected him and even burnt his books. Even those who think he was generally on the ball don't follow all of his rulings. Other opinions of Rambam include 'women should not be allowed to go outside more than once or twice a month,' for example. In summary, he was just a man - a very great thinker, but not a prophet or an unassailable authority, and there are many competing Geonim with differing viewpoints on a great many issues.

    Most Jews do not use the Mishneh Torah as their codex of choice, although it is respected. Some exceptions are Temanim (Yemenite Jews) of the Baladi tradition, who do tend to follow the Mishneh Torah, but Ashkenazim almost never do, although they do study it.

    Obviously your 'Hasidic university' website is... bizarre. A great many Jews are Freemasons, for example. I have no idea why this individual would even want to destroy them unless he's a conspiritard - Freemasonry is not a religious movement, even though you have to be a monotheist to join. It fits in well with the Noahide laws, which, again, don't matter outside of a hypothetical Halakhic state. I also don't understand why Buddhist temples get the chop (but Hindu ones don't?) or why he's so against the Sphinx or Christmas trees or even crosses (but not crescents?). He sounds like a right nutter.

    Jews do not have the death penalty for foreigners who do not adhere to Judaism, so 'chopping heads' is a very bizarre thing to bring up. Indeed, the only religions to execute heretics and nonbelievers in recent times are Christians (Inquisition, anyone?) and Muslims. In Judaism it is, again, irrelevant what foreigners believe in their own countries. There is no punishment for 'not being a Jew.'
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
    I'll say this once and I don't expect you to ever have me fucking repeat this again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komintasavalta View Post
    No need to worry goy, it's not all Christians we are going to decapitate, but just those who believe in the divinity of Jesus, and it's not all Jews, but it's just the most powerful Jews that run the game.

    It's enough that Rambam is venerated by the real Jews, and no-one is worried that Karaites or Reform Jews start chopping their heads off.

    The "Hasidic University" website was made by some single Jew who believes that the PLO did 9/11, and its interpretation of the Noahide laws is probably not very authoritative. But for example as examples of sublaw 185/436, "To destroy all idols, their temples, and other idolatrous items", it gives the following items (http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind...hp?mitzvah=185):

    - To destroy statues of Buddha or Jesus, as well as crosses, and to dispose of the dust or ashes.
    - To demolish Buddhist temples, Christian churches, and Freemasonic temples.
    - To burn Christmas trees and their ornaments.
    - To demolish the Sphinx in Egypt and scatter the dust.

    As an example of sublaw -6/28, "No idol-worship according to its established rituals", which is punishable by death, it gives "Not to be baptized in Christianity, nor to pray in the name of Jesus" (http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/ind...php?mitzvah=-6).
    That is literally what ISIS did to Christians. Beheaded them for idolatry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Östsvensk View Post
    That is literally what ISIS did to Christians. Beheaded them for idolatry.
    And what literally no Jew has ever done to Christians.
    Who is rich? He who is happy with what he has - Simeon ben Zoma, Ethics of the Fathers, Talmud, Avot 4:1

    Quote Originally Posted by zhaoyun View Post
    I'll say this once and I don't expect you to ever have me fucking repeat this again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    You would only need to adhere to them if you lived in a hypothetical country run in accordance with Halakha. We don't care what you do in your own country.

    But you probably do them anyway, the laws are:

    -Be a monotheist
    -Do not blaspheme
    -Do not commit murder
    -Do not torture animals
    -Do not steal
    -Do not have sex outside of a heterosexual marriage/support the nuclear family
    -Establish and adhere to courts of law

    So as you can see any good Christian and Muslim is in fact following the Noahide laws at all times, unless you think the Trinity contravenes rule 1.
    He obviously doesn't think that. Nor proponent of unitarianism nor trinitarianism would think it contradicts with rule one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    You would only need to adhere to them if you lived in a hypothetical country run in accordance with Halakha. We don't care what you do in your own country.

    But you probably do them anyway, the laws are:

    -Be a monotheist
    -Do not blaspheme
    -Do not commit murder
    -Do not torture animals
    -Do not steal
    -Do not have sex outside of a heterosexual marriage/support the nuclear family
    -Establish and adhere to courts of law

    So as you can see any good Christian and Muslim is in fact following the Noahide laws at all times, unless you think the Trinity contravenes rule 1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    No, this is inaccurate, again. Try to read a little more carefully and accept that, perhaps, I know [a lot] more than you about this topic. I am not talking about Reform, Liberal, Karaites, etc. I am talking about Rambam not being accepted within Orthodox circles.

    Rambam is not venerated by anybody. He was not a saint or a prophet, but a rationalist commentator. Although he is considered a great thinker by many people, he is simply not an infallible or universally accepted authority. In his lifetime he fled Spain for Egypt. The Jews of Egypt generally loved him (except the Karaites, who were at the time numerous) but the Jews of Spain - and Europe in general, particularly Ashkenazim - generally rejected him. Many of his rulings are contradicted by a great many other great rabbis, both historically and also, to a slightly lesser extent, today. Until very recently, Hassidim rejected him and even burnt his books. Even those who think he was generally on the ball don't follow all of his rulings. Other opinions of Rambam include 'women should not be allowed to go outside more than once or twice a month,' for example. In summary, he was just a man - a very great thinker, but not a prophet or an unassailable authority, and there are many competing Geonim with differing viewpoints on a great many issues.

    Most Jews do not use the Mishneh Torah as their codex of choice, although it is respected. Some exceptions are Temanim (Yemenite Jews) of the Baladi tradition, who do tend to follow the Mishneh Torah, but Ashkenazim almost never do, although they do study it.

    Obviously your 'Hasidic university' website is... bizarre. A great many Jews are Freemasons, for example. I have no idea why this individual would even want to destroy them unless he's a conspiritard - Freemasonry is not a religious movement, even though you have to be a monotheist to join. It fits in well with the Noahide laws, which, again, don't matter outside of a hypothetical Halakhic state. I also don't understand why Buddhist temples get the chop (but Hindu ones don't?) or why he's so against the Sphinx or Christmas trees or even crosses (but not crescents?). He sounds like a right nutter.

    Jews do not have the death penalty for foreigners who do not adhere to Judaism, so 'chopping heads' is a very bizarre thing to bring up. Indeed, the only religions to execute heretics and nonbelievers in recent times are Christians (Inquisition, anyone?) and Muslims. In Judaism it is, again, irrelevant what foreigners believe in their own countries. There is no punishment for 'not being a Jew.'
    I don't think that Jews had that much of a chance of doing that in the last 2000 years unlike others. Ironically, the Church most of the time throughout history acted in accordance to the Old Testament.

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