Is North Slavic genetics considered boring compared to South Slavic

[Peterski]

There seem to be much more interest and debates about South Slavic genetics than North Slavic.

[Peterski]

I think the presence of at least some genetically Belarusian-like individuals among the Medieval West Slavs from what is now Sachsen-Anhalt (Krakauer Berg) is a strong piece of evidence that the Proto-Slavs or Early Slavs had to be similar to modern Belarusians, not to modern Ukrainians:

DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA001,0.129758,0.125926,0.075424,0.072029,0.046778,0.026774,0.011986,0.010384,-0.001636,-0.021322,-0.003085,-0.006294,0.008028,0.021194,-0.013843,0.013789,0.019036,-0.005701,0.00352,0.005378,0.004991,-0.008408,0.000986,-0.006145,0.001796
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA002,0.126344,0.129988,0.067127,0.059109,0.03693,0.019243,0.007755,0.010615,0.001227,-0.023508,-0.001949,-0.008842,0.012339,0.014313,0.000136,0.009149,0.007823,-0.007728,0.002263,0.006128,-0.003369,-0.005935,0.00419,-0.002048,-0.008502
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA003,0.127482,0.121864,0.07995,0.072675,0.052317,0.013108,0.008695,0.012461,0.004704,-0.023144,-0.00341,-0.005695,0.016204,0.007019,-0.005836,0.021745,0.020861,-0.001267,0.00176,0.002501,-0.008984,-0.005193,0.005546,0.00976,0.005748
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA004,0.12862,0.131003,0.082967,0.075259,0.048624,0.025937,0.00752,0.011999,0.002863,-0.019135,0.002111,-0.008692,0.020218,0.021607,-0.0095,0.009546,0.007953,-0.0019,0.005531,0.008504,-0.011355,0.005688,0.005916,-0.01699,-0.004191
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA005,0.120652,0.137096,0.071276,0.071706,0.049548,0.01004,0.01081,0.014538,-0.009408,-0.018041,-0.00341,-0.001499,0.003419,0.018717,0.00285,-0.004773,0.003129,-0.002154,0.005154,0.004502,-0.009858,-0.004946,0.008381,-0.007591,0.001796
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA006,0.130897,0.125926,0.062979,0.063308,0.040623,0.019801,0.00329,0.013846,0.001227,-0.020046,-0.00065,-0.01079,0.016353,0.026148,-0.015065,-0.01538,-0.002738,-0.003547,0.005405,-0.007379,0.000624,0.003462,0.00493,-0.006627,-0.001078
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA007,0.129758,0.133034,0.082967,0.070737,0.049548,0.026216,0.005405,0.011769,-0.002659,-0.036447,0.003735,-0.01124,0.018285,0.023946,-0.009365,-0.014452,-0.002738,0.001014,-0.001131,0.010755,0.000374,0.001237,-0.001972,-0.009158,0.012214
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA008,0.132035,0.135065,0.076555,0.06137,0.043085,0.025937,0.00564,0.007384,0.002045,-0.02041,-0.010555,-0.005995,0.014569,0.004129,-0.012758,0.001856,0.022035,-0.000633,0.005531,0.002501,-0.00025,-0.002349,-0.001849,-0.006748,0.001078
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA010,0.129758,0.123895,0.065996,0.065246,0.042777,0.025937,0.007755,0.009461,-0.005113,-0.018588,-0.002273,-0.009442,0.013528,0.021469,-0.00665,-0.012331,-0.009648,-0.007221,0.006662,-0.007504,-0.000499,0.000866,0.007518,-0.003253,-0.000958
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA011,0.125205,0.129988,0.078818,0.072675,0.047701,0.027889,0.013161,0.006692,0.005522,-0.020593,-0.00065,-0.009292,0.018583,0.027249,-0.011672,-0.010342,-0.006389,0.00266,0.008045,0.002876,-0.011729,-0.008037,0.007272,-0.003494,0.003952

Vbnetkhio do you agree with me?

I'm asking you because you used to argue that Proto-Slavs were Ukrainian-like.

But how can we explain Belarusian-like individuals in Krakauer Berg? And Av2?

There was no Baltic migration to Sachsen-Anhalt, only Slavic.

[Peterski]

Av2 from Szolad is also Belarusian-like (and - if I recall correctly - Av1 was Av2's son and probably had one Non-Slavic parent):

Distance to:	HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2
0.02285860	Belarusian
0.02419895	Lithuanian_PA
0.02505394	Russian_Smolensk
0.02541556	Russian_Voronez

[Dušan]

Sorry, but South Slavic genetics is indeed more interesting.

[Peterski]

Krakauer Berg Slavic samples in:

Eurogenes K13:

KRA001,25.96,48.00,13.69,6.89,0,0,2.36,0.65,0.29,0.90,0.97,0.29,0
KRA002,32.83,40.49,8.72,4.20,8.75,0.08,1.21,0,1.04,0.92,0.65,1.10,0
KRA003,37.41,43.66,9.37,1.83,2.01,0.45,0,0,1.08,1.26,1.87,1.06,0
KRA004,33.97,49.45,10.27,0,0.33,1.90,0.77,0,1.06,0.49,0.56,0.23,0.96
KRA005,29.61,46.01,11.93,6.25,1.70,0,0,0,0.82,0,2.08,0,1.60
KRA006,25.65,44.48,12.02,5.98,5.26,1.24,3.24,0,1.01,0.52,0.34,0,0.26
KRA007,30.91,51.79,7.03,5.17,0,2.47,0.41,0,0,0.58,0.86,0.77,0
KRA008,27.67,45.53,14.54,3.66,4.95,0.65,0,0.34,0,2.39,0,0.27,0
KRA009,24.47,43.30,13.21,4.64,4.90,2.77,1.96,0,0,1.29,2.18,1.04,0.24
KRA010,28.23,45.68,9.85,4.59,4.85,0.16,2.48,0.99,0.16,1.23,0.51,0,1.28
KRA011,29.81,50.81,9.38,1.82,1.42,1.44,1.66,0,0,1.05,1.22,1.39,0

Eurogenes K15:

KRA001,22.24,12.81,31.32,18.94,8.00,3.85,0,0,1.39,0,0,0.62,0.82,0,0
KRA002,30.31,11.62,25.10,16.20,6.19,2.69,4.88,0,0.69,0,0,0.62,0.49,1.21,0
KRA003,30.30,15.79,24.42,20.97,5.67,0,0,0,0,0,0,0.82,1.33,0.70,0
KRA004,22.64,17.84,34.15,18.21,5.27,0,0,0.44,0,0,0,0.20,0.42,0,0.82
KRA005,19.73,18.33,33.09,16.42,5.93,3.83,0,0,0,0,0,0,1.77,0,0.90
KRA006,17.77,17.24,29.71,17.82,7.74,5.03,0.72,0.62,2.76,0,0,0.46,0.14,0,0
KRA007,19.35,20.60,33.36,21.13,1.85,2.46,0,0.80,0,0,0,0,0.29,0.16,0
KRA008,21.36,17.04,29.16,17.91,9.25,3.19,0.11,0.63,0,0,0,1.21,0,0.14,0
KRA009,20.88,11.44,31.71,15.00,7.71,3.48,1.80,3.43,1.05,0,0,0.73,1.89,0.59,0.29
KRA010,21.47,14.09,30.57,18.77,5.76,3.25,1.70,0,2.23,0.12,0,0.61,0.22,0,1.20
KRA011,21.46,18.11,32.37,20.47,4.33,0.09,0,0.64,0.16,0,0,0.07,1.01,1.29,0

Dodecad K12b:

KRA001,5.59,0,0,0.51,23.80,57.22,0.58,0,0,0.50,9.63,2.17
KRA002,5.29,1.34,1.19,0,23.76,53.28,0.30,0,0.92,0,12.48,1.43
KRA003,4.17,1.60,0.24,0.32,27.21,57.99,0,0.42,0,0,7.10,0.94
KRA004,2.55,1.28,0,0.82,25.17,60.69,0,0,1.43,0,5.93,2.13
KRA005,5.26,0.33,0,0.18,24.37,55.82,0,0,0,0,11.75,2.29
KRA006,0.03,0,0,0.27,23.44,53.22,2.62,1.04,2.93,0,16.45,0
KRA007,4.62,0,0,0,21.97,61.97,0.74,0,2.50,0,7.62,0.59
KRA008,4.59,0,0,0,25.46,57.14,0,0.21,1.09,0.76,9.22,1.52
KRA009,1.37,0,2.99,0,21.22,54.62,1.97,0.44,0,2.27,14.25,0.87
KRA010,1.47,0.70,0,0,22.23,56.69,2.62,0.46,0.41,1.12,12.66,1.65
KRA011,1.81,0,0.75,1.45,23.96,61.60,1.69,1.17,0.71,0,5.79,1.07

By the way, these samples span over a period of several centuries.

Probably the ones which are more Belarusian-like, are the oldest?

[vbnetkhio]

There seem to be much more interest and debates about South Slavic genetics than North Slavic.

Because most people wrongly assume the North Slavic areas are simply purely Slavic, and were always like that, and don't pay much attention to the nuances.
However, the aDna from these areas shows a much more complex pixture.

[vbnetkhio]

But how can we explain Belarusian-like individuals in Krakauer Berg? And Av2?

But how did the modern North Ukrainians form then? They are more "southern" than these samples.
The explanation is that back in the Slavic homeland, some Slavic tribes bordered the Balts, and had recent admixture from them, and these are their descendants who went West and south. But they were the minority among Slavs.

[Dirdepo]

But how did the modern North Ukrainians form then? They are more "southern" than these samples.
The explanation is that back in the Slavic homeland, some Slavic tribes bordered the Balts, and had recent admixture from them, and these are their descendants who went West and south. But they were the minority among Slavs.

Ukraine is biggest landmass in Europe you have different tribes there. Ukrainians were formed in 1991. You have different geography, steppe, mountains, forests, coast this produced various tribes. Not a unilateral one, the Ukrainians were united only 1991 by government before that they were scattered tribes that either were unoffically united or not united at all and still opposed to eachother until today.

[Sandis]

Maybe here are just more genetics fans from South Slavic countries, so we have more topics about South Slavic genetics.

[Lemminkäinen]

Vahaduo K13

Distance to: Mm
5.71720211 KRA003
8.03704548 KRA004
10.07663138 KRA007
10.17446805 KRA005
10.36558730 KRA011
10.69744362 KRA010
11.06430748 KRA002
13.35136697 KRA008
13.75999273 KRA006
13.81274050 KRA001
15.44128881 KRA009

Target: Mm
Distance: 4.9394% / 4.93944820
75.3 KRA003
24.7 KRA007