Is North Slavic genetics considered boring compared to South Slavic

[Peterski]

Wasn't the main theory that Slavs pushed outward from around the Pripyat marshes? That's at the crossroads of Belarus and Ukraine.

That is what some linguists claimed based on reconstructing the Proto-Slavic language and the names for trees:



But some archeologists say that the Pripyat marshes did not have the capacity to contain such a large population.

[Sandis]

I removed POH44 from the Early_Slavic average, this sample seems to be mixed or of mediocre quality.



There is still overlap with Ukrainians in Europe1 PCA

I included the acient samples you labeled as "Early Slavic" in my PCA. Some Ukrainians and Poles are close to Early Slavic samples. I think that i need to include more samples from Krakauer Berg:

[Ion Basescul]

That is what some linguists claimed based on reconstructing the Proto-Slavic language and the names for trees:



But some archeologists say that the Pripyat marshes did not have the capacity to contain such a large population.

If Slavs are more alike to Balts than what was thought, then it means that all modern Slavs are also less Slavic than we think.

[Dirdepo]

Look look look again, refer to post #11

There is no proto Slavs. There is always only one real history supported by documentation, archaeology and genetics in combination, you know Yugoslav history cannot claim that because it is more or less like a puzzle without all the pieces. Yugoslav propaganda altered history is pure BS in all shapes, forms and dialects. And you are bitch niggas that get raided from all angles, 44 times your capital was burned to the ground look up the facts. The only good thing in your country 2 things, women from all cultures from rape and making hybrids and food from all cultures and making hybrid kitchen. Nothing else. THE END. Your welcome. Sântana de Mureș-Chernyakhov culture the origin of Eastern European I2.

[michal3141]

Early Medieval Polish from Cedynia (a site of a famous battle in 972 AD, by the way) is also "Belarusian":

Distance to:	POL_Cedynia_VA:VK212
0.02470261	Belarusian
0.02643228	Russian_Smolensk
0.02905136	Lithuanian_PA
0.03049418	Lithuanian_VA
0.03103757	Lithuanian_VZ
0.03144912	Russian_Pskov
0.03156080	Russian_Voronez

There are also Pohansko samples from Moravia, Czech Republic, some of which also look Belarusian-like.

If we average these samples:

CZE_Pohansko_MA:POH13,0.127482 ,0.132019,0.083721,0.078489,0.050471,0.026495,0.00 517,0.018922,0.004295,-0.028429,-0.004384,-0.006744,0.017988,0.043076,-0.008143,-0.011668,0.005346,0.000507,0.004022,0.012256,-0.012228,-0.008903,0.01368,-0.013496,-0.002395
CZE_Pohansko_MA:POH28,0.141141 ,0.136081,0.087492,0.081719,0.047086,0.027052,0.01 9976,0.023999,0.010635,-0.01385,-0.001299,-0.014537,0.027502,0.03647,-0.015065,-0.007425,-0.014473,-0.005954,-0.005531,0,-0.007237,-0.004204,0.000616,-0.00964,-0.002275
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA001,0.129758,0.125926,0.075424,0.072029,0.046778,0.026774,0.011986,0.010384,-0.001636,-0.021322,-0.003085,-0.006294,0.008028,0.021194,-0.013843,0.013789,0.019036,-0.005701,0.00352,0.005378,0.004991,-0.008408,0.000986,-0.006145,0.001796
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA004,0.12862,0.131003,0.082967,0.075259,0.048624,0.025937,0.00752,0.011999,0.002863,-0.019135,0.002111,-0.008692,0.020218,0.021607,-0.0095,0.009546,0.007953,-0.0019,0.005531,0.008504,-0.011355,0.005688,0.005916,-0.01699,-0.004191
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA006,0.130897,0.125926,0.062979,0.063308,0.040623,0.019801,0.00329,0.013846,0.001227,-0.020046,-0.00065,-0.01079,0.016353,0.026148,-0.015065,-0.01538,-0.002738,-0.003547,0.005405,-0.007379,0.000624,0.003462,0.00493,-0.006627,-0.001078
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA007,0.129758,0.133034,0.082967,0.070737,0.049548,0.026216,0.005405,0.011769,-0.002659,-0.036447,0.003735,-0.01124,0.018285,0.023946,-0.009365,-0.014452,-0.002738,0.001014,-0.001131,0.010755,0.000374,0.001237,-0.001972,-0.009158,0.012214
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA010,0.129758,0.123895,0.065996,0.065246,0.042777,0.025937,0.007755,0.009461,-0.005113,-0.018588,-0.002273,-0.009442,0.013528,0.021469,-0.00665,-0.012331,-0.009648,-0.007221,0.006662,-0.007504,-0.000499,0.000866,0.007518,-0.003253,-0.000958
DEU_Krakauer_Berg_MA:KRA011,0.125205,0.129988,0.078818,0.072675,0.047701,0.027889,0.013161,0.006692,0.005522,-0.020593,-0.00065,-0.009292,0.018583,0.027249,-0.011672,-0.010342,-0.006389,0.00266,0.008045,0.002876,-0.011729,-0.008037,0.007272,-0.003494,0.003952
HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2,0.134311,0.126941,0.081458,0.065569,0.035391,0.033746,0.00987,0.005769,0.004704,-0.02278,-0.002436,-0.005395,0.01219,0.020643,-0.015201,-0.003845,0.005867,0.004561,0.008673,5e-04,0.001497,-0.00272,0.013804,-0.007109,0.002634
POL_Cedynia_VA:VK212,0.124067,0.135065,0.075424,0.072029,0.038469,0.027052,0.011986,0.020538,0.00634,-0.027153,-0.006171,-0.01169,0.022002,0.031516,-0.016694,-0.01127,0.002347,0.003041,0.005028,-0.001501,-0.010606,0.004946,0.007518,-0.005422,0.00479
DNK_Funen_VA:VK139,0.1161,0.131003,0.076178,0.073967,0.047393,0.02761,-0.0047,0.011307,0.010635,-0.020957,0.003573,-0.007793,0.018137,0.026148,-0.008822,-0.00305,-0.001043,0.001014,0.003897,0.002376,-0.003119,-0.007419,0.00912,-0.003494,-0.003233

We get such average:

EarlySlavic,0.1276082222,0.1300800909,0.077584,0.0719115455,0.0449873636,0.0267735455,0.0073636667,0.0131532727,0.0033466364,-0.0226636364,-0.0010480909,-0.0092644545,0.0175285455,0.0272241818,-0.01182,-0.0060389091,0.00032,-0.0010478182,0.004011,0.0025761,-0.0044806364,-0.0021356364,0.006308,-0.0077116364,0.0010232727

Distance to:	EarlySlavic
0.01277720	Belarusian
0.01551626	Russian_Smolensk
0.01731948	Lithuanian_PA
0.01920299	Lithuanian_VA
0.02043099	Russian_Pskov
0.02068957	Russian_Voronez
0.02166689	Russian_Kaluga
0.02292616	Lithuanian_VZ

Bruh. We need to wait for the genomic map of Poland. Apparently majority of published Polish samples to the date are Ashkenazis!

[Peterski]

Another Belarusian-like Slavic sample, but this time from Medieval Russia:

Distance to:	VK2020_RUS_Kurevanikha_VA:VK160
0.02042011	Lithuanian_PA
0.02139772	Belarusian
0.02316546	Lithuanian_VZ
0.02339784	Lithuanian_VA
0.02463962	Estonian

And also the Medieval Pole from Sandomierz in Southern (!) Poland:

Distance to:	VK2020_POL_Sandomierz_VA:VK494
0.03442906	Belarusian
0.03538954	Russian_Smolensk
0.03727273	Polish_Kashubian
0.03830888	Lithuanian_PA
0.03884122	Lithuanian_VZ

However, I will only add VK494 to the Early_Slavic average, because VK160 could be admixed by some Russian Ugro-Finnic populations.

[Sandis]

Another Belarusian-like Slavic sample, but this time from Medieval Russia:

Distance to:	VK2020_RUS_Kurevanikha_VA:VK160
0.02042011	Lithuanian_PA
0.02139772	Belarusian
0.02316546	Lithuanian_VZ
0.02339784	Lithuanian_VA
0.02463962	Estonian

And also the Medieval Pole from Sandomierz in Southern (!) Poland:

Distance to:	VK2020_POL_Sandomierz_VA:VK494
0.03442906	Belarusian
0.03538954	Russian_Smolensk
0.03727273	Polish_Kashubian
0.03830888	Lithuanian_PA
0.03884122	Lithuanian_VZ

First sample from Vologda oblast could be partly Finnic influenced because it's close to Estonian and Russian_Pskov (7th closest).
Russians from Smolensk are close to Belarusians, however they are further from Balts than Belarusians are. Interesting that they have similar distance from Sandomierz sample.

[Peterski]

New Early_Slavic average:

Early_Slavic,0.1274818,0.1297339167,0.0782525,0.0714368333,0.0455469167,0.0274475,0.0083899,0.0132494167,0.0033915833,-0.0222176667,-0.0015020833,-0.0092644545,0.0174305833,0.0273983333,-0.0118076667,-0.0059665833,-0.0008800833,-0.0006120833,0.0047661667,0.0025351818,-0.003317,-0.0014733333,0.00625475,-0.0074605833,0.0010278333

Distance to:	Early_Slavic
0.01285214	Belarusian
0.01559252	Russian_Smolensk
0.01774673	Lithuanian_PA
0.01970321	Lithuanian_VA
0.02091268	Russian_Voronez
0.02103193	Russian_Pskov
0.02194774	Russian_Kaluga
0.02288671	Lithuanian_VZ
0.02385759	Polish
0.02442825	Ukrainian

Made from these samples:

Early_Slavic:KRA001,0.129758,0.125926,0.075424,0.072029,0.046778,0.026774,0.011986,0.010384,-0.001636,-0.021322,-0.003085,-0.006294,0.008028,0.021194,-0.013843,0.013789,0.019036,-0.005701,0.00352,0.005378,0.004991,-0.008408,0.000986,-0.006145,0.001796
Early_Slavic:KRA004,0.12862,0.131003,0.082967,0.075259,0.048624,0.025937,0.00752,0.011999,0.002863,-0.019135,0.002111,-0.008692,0.020218,0.021607,-0.0095,0.009546,0.007953,-0.0019,0.005531,0.008504,-0.011355,0.005688,0.005916,-0.01699,-0.004191
Early_Slavic:KRA006,0.130897,0.125926,0.062979,0.063308,0.040623,0.019801,0.00329,0.013846,0.001227,-0.020046,-0.00065,-0.01079,0.016353,0.026148,-0.015065,-0.01538,-0.002738,-0.003547,0.005405,-0.007379,0.000624,0.003462,0.00493,-0.006627,-0.001078
Early_Slavic:KRA007,0.129758,0.133034,0.082967,0.070737,0.049548,0.026216,0.005405,0.011769,-0.002659,-0.036447,0.003735,-0.01124,0.018285,0.023946,-0.009365,-0.014452,-0.002738,0.001014,-0.001131,0.010755,0.000374,0.001237,-0.001972,-0.009158,0.012214
Early_Slavic:KRA010,0.129758,0.123895,0.065996,0.065246,0.042777,0.025937,0.007755,0.009461,-0.005113,-0.018588,-0.002273,-0.009442,0.013528,0.021469,-0.00665,-0.012331,-0.009648,-0.007221,0.006662,-0.007504,-0.000499,0.000866,0.007518,-0.003253,-0.000958
Early_Slavic:KRA011,0.125205,0.129988,0.078818,0.072675,0.047701,0.027889,0.013161,0.006692,0.005522,-0.020593,-0.00065,-0.009292,0.018583,0.027249,-0.011672,-0.010342,-0.006389,0.00266,0.008045,0.002876,-0.011729,-0.008037,0.007272,-0.003494,0.003952
Early_Slavic:Av2,0.134311,0.126941,0.081458,0.065569,0.035391,0.033746,0.00987,0.005769,0.004704,-0.02278,-0.002436,-0.005395,0.01219,0.020643,-0.015201,-0.003845,0.005867,0.004561,0.008673,5e-04,0.001497,-0.00272,0.013804,-0.007109,0.002634
Early_Slavic:VK212,0.124067,0.135065,0.075424,0.072029,0.038469,0.027052,0.011986,0.020538,0.00634,-0.027153,-0.006171,-0.01169,0.022002,0.031516,-0.016694,-0.01127,0.002347,0.003041,0.005028,-0.001501,-0.010606,0.004946,0.007518,-0.005422,0.00479
Early_Slavic:POH13,0.127482 ,0.132019,0.083721,0.078489,0.050471,0.026495,0.00 517,0.018922,0.004295,-0.028429,-0.004384,-0.006744,0.017988,0.043076,-0.008143,-0.011668,0.005346,0.000507,0.004022,0.012256,-0.012228,-0.008903,0.01368,-0.013496,-0.002395
Early_Slavic:POH28,0.141141 ,0.136081,0.087492,0.081719,0.047086,0.027052,0.01 9976,0.023999,0.010635,-0.01385,-0.001299,-0.014537,0.027502,0.03647,-0.015065,-0.007425,-0.014473,-0.005954,-0.005531,0,-0.007237,-0.004204,0.000616,-0.00964,-0.002275
Early_Slavic:VK139,0.1161,0.131003,0.076178,0.073967,0.047393,0.02761,-0.0047,0.011307,0.010635,-0.020957,0.003573,-0.007793,0.018137,0.026148,-0.008822,-0.00305,-0.001043,0.001014,0.003897,0.002376,-0.003119,-0.007419,0.00912,-0.003494,-0.003233
Early_Slavic:VK494,0.126344,0.125926,0.085606,0.066215,0.051702,0.034861,0.017626,0.014307,0.003886,-0.017312,-0.006496,3e-04,0.016353,0.029314,-0.011672,-0.005171,-0.014081,0.004181,0.013073,0.002126,0.009483,0.005812,0.005669,-0.004699,0.001078

[Peterski]

Sorry, but South Slavic genetics is indeed more interesting.

I agree by the way, because South Slavs are more mixed.

[Sandis]

That is what some linguists claimed based on reconstructing the Proto-Slavic language and the names for trees:



But some archeologists say that the Pripyat marshes did not have the capacity to contain such a large population.

If a big green lake near the Dnieper river in this map (upside down) is Pripet marshes, then it doesn't look very populated in the 12th century, however this map isn't too accurate.